# How will Detroit get past this? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 23, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598 "2020-03-23T16:19:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/21 "2020-03-24T15:43:58Z")
> [@VOLVO\_V70](#): > > Unfortunately in my area one of the dealers that may not survive has had several dealer ships and has a very good reputation . The owner is also civic minded and supports a lot of charities . Often those who go out of their way to support their employees and customers and neighbors are the first to fail. I hear “no good deed goes unpunished.” And the ruthless, greedy SOBs make out like bandits. Which in reality they are. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/22 "2020-03-24T15:50:49Z")
The Fed is making unprecedented loans to increase market liquidity. Without this, there would be little to no money to loan and the economy would collapse. Their charter empowers them to do this, and they only undertake extreme actions when really required. For instance, what they are doing now has never been done before. Sobering, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/23 "2020-03-24T16:56:38Z")
That “liquidity” has been poured continuously into the Wall St Gravy Train for 13 years now and it has made a few extremely wealthy as it inflated the markets. It’s all been a scam and it may be folding. For the most part America is in a debt crisis as the result of poor regulation and the Fed’s efforts to keep the markets pumped up to give the appearance of prosperity these past 3+ decades. From quarter to quarter Washington has allowed the Fed to make the government appear successful in managing finances by throwing the nations credit cards into deep debt. And most of the public fell for it while those getting wealthier have laughed all the way home from their brokers’ offices thinking of how those simple minded people with dirty finger nails are making them wealthy plus paying their taxes for them. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/24 "2020-03-24T17:21:56Z")
> [@Rod\_Knox](#): > > how those simple minded people with dirty finger nails are making them wealthy plus paying their taxes for them. The data says otherwise… “Taxpayers with incomes over $200,000 paid 58.9% of all federal income taxes, despite the fact that those high-earners only accounted for about 4.5% off all returns filed.” From this article and many others. Like this one; > **[Who Pays U.S. Income Taxes (and Who Doesn't) | The Motley Fool](https://www.fool.com/taxes/2017/10/10/who-pays-us-income-taxes-and-who-doesnt.aspx)** > > In a progressive tax system, making more money means paying a higher tax rate. Does it actually work that way? And this, > **[Budget Basics: Who Pays Taxes?](https://www.pgpf.org/budget-basics/who-pays-taxes)** > > The fairness of our federal tax system is a hotly debated issue. Too often, however, those debates confuse or misrepresent important facts because they focus on one type of tax in isolation rather than the various taxes that people face in aggregate. That dirty fingernail worker making $12 an hour is paying for less than 1.4% of the total federal bill. Federal taxes are very progressive… state taxes less so. And yet to pass bipartisan legislation, both sides pork up every bill with their pet projects to balloon our deficit spending and increases the federal debt. With this as an example, it is any wonder the average household debt load is about $60,000. > **[The Median Debt of Americans by Age, Education, and Other Demographics |...](https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-center/money-finance/the-median-debt-of-americans/)** > > How much debt does the average American have, and which Americans have the most debt? We’ve taken a deep dive into U.S. debt statistics and demographics to find those who are taking out the most cash in loans and charges. We’ve found some upsetting... ---
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/25 "2020-03-24T18:38:32Z")
The smoke and mirrors are so effectively used by those who can gain significantly from using them. [https://blog.cheapism.com/why-billionaires-pay-less-in-taxes/#slide=2](https://blog.cheapism.com/why-billionaires-pay-less-in-taxes/#slide=2) ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/26 "2020-03-24T18:46:06Z")
Let’s go back to the tax system this country was founded on. My income tax burden would drop to ZERO. Federal taxes were mainly paid by businesses and working land owners. NOT individuals directly. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/27 "2020-03-24T18:46:53Z")
And yet the facts still don’t change. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/28 "2020-03-24T18:51:00Z")
Do the math and post it here. You are certainly capable. When was the last time we did that? How high would those rates need to be to meet the $4 Trillion dollar federal budget. I’m being serious, I’d really like to know. Working land owners meaning what? Farm land? Manufacturing land? Both? Business taxes on profit only? A yearly asset tax? Both? ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/29 "2020-03-24T18:52:05Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > Let’s go back to the tax system this country was founded on. My income tax burden would drop to ZERO. Federal taxes were mainly paid by businesses and working land owners. Actually, the original tax structure of the Federal government was based on import tariffs, which were paid by importers and the cost was passed along to consumers in the form of higher prices. There was a _temporary_ income tax during The Civil War, but it was ruled unconstitutional by the SCOTUS. The “modern” income tax did not come about until 1913. > **[History of taxation in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_taxation_in_the_United_States)** > > The history of taxation in the United States begins with the colonial protest against British taxation policy in the 1760s, leading to the American Revolution. The independent nation collected taxes on imports ("tariffs"), whiskey, and (for a while) on glass windows. States and localities collected poll taxes on voters and property taxes on land and commercial buildings. In addition, there were the state and federal excise taxes. State and federal inheritance taxes began after 1900, while the s... ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/30 "2020-03-24T19:04:04Z")
I’m sketchy on my history of tax law…the point I was making is we as individuals didn’t pay an income tax. That didn’t come about til the first part of the 20th century. I have no problem with the progressive income tax, and our joint tax filing is well north of $200k. That’s where the money is. The top 10% own 70% of the wealth in the US. And the gap is widening. They should share the majority of the tax burden. > **[The richest 10% of households now represent 70% of all U.S. wealth](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-richest-10-of-households-now-represent-70-of-all-us-wealth-2019-05-24)** > > The rich are getting richer. It is a refrain that has certainly been uttered before, and likely will again, as Deutsche Bank’s chief economist says the gap... ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/31 "2020-03-24T19:07:39Z")
Regardless of what tax system is used, I have maintained for years that it is dangerous to have a large part of the population not pay taxes. Everyone should pay regardless of how little they earn. Then everyone has skin in the game and less likely to pit one group against another. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/32 "2020-03-24T19:38:52Z")
> [@bing](#): > > Regardless of what tax system is used, I have maintained for years that it is dangerous to have a large part of the population not pay taxes. Everyone should pay regardless of how little they earn. What makes you think the lower income people don’t pay taxes? They buy gas, they buy tires…both of those have Federal excise taxes. And then there’s the local sales taxes. And if any of those products were imported, then those taxes are passed onto the consumer. And lets not forget the wireless taxes for anyone who owns a cell phone. Then there’s FICA. Lower income people pay FICA on 100% of their income. The top 1% wage earners pay FICA on a fraction of their income since it’s capped at about $130,000 ---
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/33 "2020-03-24T20:40:16Z")
Well, Detroit got past this > **[Plan For Belle Isle Utopia Revived After Bankruptcy Filing](https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/07/31/plan-for-belle-isle-utopia-revived-after-bankruptcy-filing/)** > > An outlandish idea is gaining some interest now that Detroit has filed for Chapter 9 protection. but today they might not turn down a developer ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/34 "2020-03-24T21:15:27Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > What makes you think the lower income people don’t pay taxes? Of course, but so does everybody else. I’m talking income taxes, not license fees, park entrance fees, sales tax, property tax, health insurance tax, and so on. You get the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Barkydog](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/barkydog/32/2470_2.png) [@Barkydog](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Barkydog)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/35 "2020-03-24T22:00:46Z")
Saw an ad just now, 0% APR for _84 Months_ + 120 Days Deferred Payment. ---
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/36 "2020-03-24T22:12:25Z")
A four month free ride then 7 years of regret. I’ll hope that Detroit eats most of those sales and fill their lots with un-sellable repossessions. ---
**Author:** ![old\_mopar\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6bbea6/32.png) [@old\_mopar\_guy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/old_mopar_guy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/37 "2020-03-24T23:03:24Z")
7 year loans have become very common. According to NADA, the most common length of a new car loan in South Jersey is 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![Barkydog](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/barkydog/32/2470_2.png) [@Barkydog](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Barkydog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/38 "2020-03-25T00:01:27Z")
Sout Joisy HA HA ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/39 "2020-03-25T00:59:18Z")
> [@Beancounter](#): > > bigger fools willing to lend them the money to buy it Well now I don’t know how big a fools the banks are. We taught them last time, lend all the risky money you want. If it goes south, you’ll get a nice taxpayer bailout 'cause you’re too big to fail. If I could give out 10-20% loans and my only risk is that I’ll only get all my money back instead of all my money plus 5 grand, I might be in that business too. ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598/40 "2020-03-25T01:46:08Z")
I remember back in the early 2000’s, Mistubishi did a promo where they offered a full year payment-free on a new Eclipse or Lancer. They ended up losing a lot of money, because a lot of customers drove the car for a year for free, never made any payments, and then Mitsubishi had to repossess them and sell them at a huge loss. I can’t believe anyone is stupid enough to offer deferred-payment financing in today’s economic climate. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-will-detroit-get-past-this/161598.md?page=3)