I average about one ticket every 3 years or so, FYI. I tend to cap my speed at 80 for cruising unless everyone else is going significantly faster.
oblivion…"I average about one ticket every 3 years or so, FYI. I tend to cap my speed at 80 for cruising unless everyone else is going significantly faster. "
Don’t mean to pick on you as I’m sure you’re a fine person, but this is typical of drivers who speed in 65mph zones and their attitudes on exceeding the speed limit by 15 plus mph.
Cops need to write tickets for that speed regardless of “their” story…
Don’t know if “speed6” will ever return, but in case he does…I want him to know I feel his advice is bogus and it’s too bad so many are taken in by it. The biggest line of B.S. I have heard from some one who claims to be a cop…which I’m hard pressed to believe.
In situations where you were chased and pulled over, do you have a clue how fast the cop had to travel to pick you up ?
Doc…
"The throughways are designed for at least 80+ mph of safe driving with today’s vehicles. "
Without a doubt. I get that…but not in traffic and with others doing speeds from 55 to 80. That’s the part speeders don’t get. They share the highway with others who aren’t safe with those around them doing 15 plus mph faster. The best race driver in the world is unsafe sharing the highway with gramps and texting drivers changing lanes at speeds 20 mph slower than he while he is speeding by at 80 mph. So we don’t ask gramps, novice drivers and trucks to speed up to make it safer for speeders…we ask them to slow down.
It’s called relativity and speeders don’t get it till they run into someone who never saw them coming from behind at often 20 mph over the limit.
“In situations where you were chased and pulled over, do you have a clue how fast the cop had to travel to pick you up ?”
Why should I care? I pull over immediately when a cop turns on their lights. You can’t outrun radio anyway. If a cop has the poor personal judgement that he feels that he must go 100+ to catch up so he can write me a ticket for going 80 in a 65, well, that’s just sad. I routinely see cops going well over the speed limit without their lights on. Clearly they do not feel it’s unsafe to themselves or others, even in a Crown Vic, which isn’t the greatest handling/stopping vehicle out there.
While I understand that laws must be enforced, I also feel that ticketing speeders in many cases, especially on expressways, is more a revenue generating exercise than than a safety improving one. In a lot of cases the speed limits are enacted for fuel savings anyway, not safety. I really wish they’d raise the speed limit to 80 and be done with it. No, I wouldn’t be the one traveling 95 if they did so.
Signed, Unrepentant Speeder
I rest my case. Your response though well intended and rational from your point of view, is proof positive why speed6 is full of it. And, i believe you wouldn’t be the one traveling 95…but a large majority of your fellow speeders would for sure. And the same debates would start over again. The speed differences on the highway and the people and vehicles they share the highway with, the real problem, would be even greater.
I hope they watch out for that Smart for Two driven by gramps. Cops drive, Crown Vics…And most speeders drive a fwd mushroom car ? There are no standard fwd cars made that a police version CV can’t out handle at high speeds in emergency maneuvers. A speeders logic makes a little sense to themselves at least, If they all drove a BMW or like. They would stand a better chance of avoiding gramps. They don’t and many drive junkers, top heavy SUVs, pick up trucks and mushy car rental types.
If everyone drove 15mph OVER the speed limit the roads would be safer then if you had 33% driving the speed limit…33% driving 5mph under the speed limit…and 33% driving 5mph over the speed limit.
But in reality we’ll NEVER see everyone doing the same speed. Some people on the road MUST never ever let someone pass them. It’s not in their nature.
10-15mph over the speed limit in most cases is fine. Congested traffic where there are many varying speeds from many different drivers…then 15mph over the speed limit is NOT a good idea.
As for tickets…I haven’t had one in close to 30 years. And I DON’T drive the speed limit. But I’m NOT a maniac on the road either. Around town I’m very close to the speed limit. Too many factors (congested traffic, people crossing, kids playing in streets, blind spots…) that driving over the limit is dangerous no matter what you drive or how good of a driver you are.
Mike…that is my point exactly. The higher the speed limit, the greater the variation in speed, the less safe the highways on that factor alone. There are such a large number of drivers and or vehicles sharing our interstate you would not want traveling at 80 mph who now " creep along" at 60 to 65. You remember your comment…if you are under 10 mph over the speed limit, it can be unsafe.
Now raise the limit to 75 or 80 and imagine the situation. The bogus argument is that raising the limit would just make speeders legal and not affect any one else…wrong, raising the limit, raises the bar, raises the accident rate as it raises the average speed. When speed limits increased in areas I had traffic control, the number of tickets changed little even though the parameters for righting them remained constant. Everyone went faster, even those who shouldn’t. Accidents were much more " spectacular" too. But, the malls have to be serviced…life goes on, but for some it didn’t.
I guess the instant a driver gets their license, they become automatically capable of handling speeds of 80 plus mph by themselves or those around them. This capability lasts till they are well into their eightys as well. The speeders creed.
@dagosa…Mike…that is my point exactly. The higher the speed limit, the greater the variation in speed, the less safe the highways on that factor alone.
Agree 100%. The varying in speed is the factor. And driving 80 when others are driving 60 is going to cause problems. And I agree raising the limit to 75 is going to cause MORE problems. I know of no one over 70 who feels safe driving at 70. I’m sure they’re out there…but no one I know. So they’ll still be driving at 65 (endangering the rest of us).
I guess the instant a driver gets their license, they become automatically capable of handling speeds of 80 plus mph by themselves or those around them.
And that’s the other part I don’t like…There are people on the road today who have a problem handing 65 let alone 80. There are places where 80mph might be fine…but New England isn’t one of them.
The most carnage per mile occurs on undivided free access, 2 lane highways with speed limits of 55 mph. There are lots of these roads in New England. The same speeders who travel 10 to 15 over said it’s ok to do 5 to 10 over on these. The difference is, collision speeds are now 110 to 150 miles per hour, closing speed…not 80 mph. Same speeders, same attitude worse results. Wizzing by some one just feet away at 120 mies per hour while texting ? Have to admit, even the most demanding race car drvers don’t face these challenges.
Speed, is not, in and of itself, a determining factor in whether or not you have an accident. Just check the roads in Europe, where the speed limit is much higher than here - and in some cases, there is no speed limit. Accidents are much less. Why? People actually pay attention to driving and not their electronic gadgets. Just sayin’
“Speed, is not, in and of itself, a determining factor in whether or not you have an accident.”
Yes, it sometimes is, i.e. driving too fast for conditions. Excessive speed, note the word excessive here, can make an avoidable accident, unavoidable. Speed is often “the straw that broke the camel’s back”. The Navy once had a term for this, I can’t remember it exactly but is was something like the excess factor.
continued
In every accident, there are a number of factors, or conditions. When the number of factors, or conditions exceeds our capability to handle them by just one factor or condition, an accident results.
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Speed may not be the determining factor, but it is always a factor. And they do have accidents in Europe. I don’t have any statistics to back this up, but I would guess that their accident rate is similar to ours. They have been having serious problem with a few wealthy drivers in high performance cars causing horrific accidents on the smaller secondary roads. It has gotten so bad, that in some countries, the fine for speeding is based on your wealth, not on your actual speed. There is a case of a speeder being fined somewhere in the million dollar range for going about 200+ kph in a 30 kph village street.
in EU they are also trained better than the drivers in the US
I wholeheartedly agree that European drivers are better trained than US drivers.
“There are no standard fwd cars made that a police version CV can’t out handle at high speeds in emergency maneuvers.”
This I must disagree with. I have personally owned two old cop cars, a Crown Vic and a Caprice. I have also driven one of the fairly recent retired Police Interceptor Crown Vics. In all cases, even my old 94 LHS would easily run away from any of these vehicles on twisty roads, assuming decent tires on both. It might be different if the Crown Vics had enough horsepower to throttle steer the car, but while these vehicles are comfortable and durable, they are a little underpowered for their role in my opinion. Even the ‘Police Interceptor’ is only a little quicker than my venerable 94, and won’t hold a candle to my newer vehicle in handling or flat out acceleration. Without stability control, unless the cop behind the wheel is very skilled, even a recent minivan in the hands of a competent driver will out handle the old Vics.
I’m not sure if I agree with the ‘always take it to court’ advice. Many times, an offender has the option of simply paying the face value of the ticket and the affair being over. Or, they can take it to court and have legal fees, processing fees, docket fees and various other fees added to the original cost of the ticket. And those are just the plaintiff’s costs. If you hire your own attorney, then that can add up to thousands of dollars. Here in Germany, and I suspect the same is true in many parts of the States, a photo speeding ticket can cost 40 euro. If you want to actually see the photo, it can cost up to 300 euro because that’s what it costs the Polizei to develop the photo and hand it to you. And then you STILL have to pay the ticket. Sometimes, even if you believe you’re right, it’s not worth the expense of fighting the ticket. Just swallow your pride and pay the 40 euro.
Also, when I was a young’n, I attended Marin County City Council meetings where my mother was a council member. My job was to make the signs on the felt board every week. Ticket revenue was factored into the city’s budget. City police officers are encouraged to write more tickets to line the city’s coffers.
So we’re all in favor of speeding, and everyone else should either keep up with us or slow down if they’re speeding more than us, because we’re not the ones causing the speed differentials on the highways. It’s safer to go the same speed as the people who are speeding than it is to go the same speed as the people obeying the speed limit, although in either case we will be contributing to the problem of speed differentials. Okay, now it’s all clear.
300 Euro to develop a photo is outrageous! The photos are digital. Assuming the highest quality photo paper, bandwidth, and labor, I can’t imagine that the actual cost to the government is more than 5-10 Euros, tops. Why is it so much? Not because of any actual cost, but because they can. Can you say ‘corruption’? Disgusting.
@littlemouse: I’m not in favor of a Mad Max highway run or anarchy for everyone. I just think that often speed limits are ridiculous and enforcement is not for safety but for revenue. If slower traffic would keep to the right two lanes except when passing, that would solve most of the problems with speed differentials.
I will be the first to admit that a lot of people are ignorant and uneducated as far as basic driving skills and traffic laws go, and I don’t know what to do about that. You’d think passing a driving test is enough, but driver ed is more like learning to paint by numbers than teaching how to actually create. A lot of people are plain ignorant or indifferent anyway. I strive to not be one of those, but I’ve always felt comfortable driving and enjoyed it, and perhaps that’s the difference—not looking at driving as just a task or chore that we all must do to survive in society, but more of a freedom and a pleasure.
I’ve found that driving 10 miles over the speed limit has no real advantage unless you’re traveling great distances in the manner of hundreds of miles on the interstate or over open road. Over most commutes, the cars you passed will end up right behind you at the light at the bottom of the off ramp or right behind when you’re held up by slow drivers traveling abreast. Often, when I’m traveling with several people in different cars from the same origin to the same destination - family excursions or work luncheons for example - I drive in my typical grandma on valium fashion. My more reckless family members and colleagues traveling in the manner of Bo and Luke Duke on the same route arrive usually within a few seconds, at most a few minutes of each other. In fact, on non-interstate secondary roads, it’s the luck of the draw on who makes the lights or ends up behind a tractor or slow-moving truck. Having driven for the past 30 years, I’ve observed that driving faster doesn’t necessarily get you anyplace sooner.
" oblivion"… You want to compare an old retired cruiser to a modern fwd car with stability control…it might be close. For those of you weaned on fwd cars, I get it. For those of us who lived and trained on these things and put up handling numbers at the academy that my new SAAB couldn’t even dream about, it’s a different story. But of course, we knew how to drive them. Your opinion is more based upon who was behind the wheel.
“Littlemouse”…I have to agree with your well stated synopsis of the " speeder’s creed". Testosterone induced opinions of speeders of what is safe on the highway is not always the most correct. I guess text messaging teen drivers of clunkers filled with buddies do well at 80 mph…as well as the 85 year old Parnelli Jones look alike.
Oblivion…speed traps have less to do with revenue. 99 percent of the time, they are put in place as a result of research and complaints by the locals who are the tax payers and demand you guys obey traffic laws.
Azimuth361…I disagree with you on only this point of your well stated opinion…speeding does often get you to the Emergency ward and / or cemetery quicker. And, as stated, excessive speed for conditions was a factor in the majority of accidents we investigated.
I agree with everything you say and my own experience reflects yours. There is a big difference between going 70 mph and actually being someplace that’s 70 miles away one hour from now.
Being stuck behind a 60 mph 18-wheeler for an entire mile only adds about 8 seconds to your 70 mph time of arrival, yet people will cross the double yellow to pass that 18 wheeler RIGHT NOW, even people who wouldn’t dream of just driving through a red light when there is no cross traffic to yield to.
Then you stop to buy a Coke and a snack at some convienence store and that painfully slow 18 wheeler goes by while you are in the store and you have to pass him all over again.
It’s funny that everyone seems to need to go 5-to 10 mph over the speed limit yet no one runs to and from their cars as fast as they can run in the parking lot.