# How hard is it to disable or adjust a seat belt load limiter to improve safety? **URL:** \ **Category:** Safety\ **Created:** [October 7, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839 "2021-10-07T18:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/123 "2022-07-31T16:20:11Z")
> [@Renegade](#): > > If everyone would ignore him and not respond to his nonsense do you think he might go away? Eventually somebody with a legitimate question or comment would come and respond in here and then I would come back. So you can’t leave it be. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/124 "2022-07-31T16:57:30Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > edit: I added the passenger vehicle drivers only part. The increase in male fatalities over female is less although still increasing. Actually, it’s not. Highest year is 1992, little dip in 1997, then back to the prior trend, but a bit lower. So your own statistics refute your claim. Round them off to one decimal place and it’s flat 2006 on. That tells me if there is an effect, it’s very minor, not the crises on automotive safety you seem to be claiming. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/125 "2022-07-31T18:56:24Z")
This whole argument about the stats in 1990 forget the fact that the average age of a car on the road in 1990 was about 9-10 years. Any conspiracy about seatbelts would take a decade to affect the stats since this change was on NEW 1990 up cars. Blows the seatbelt load limiter argument to pieces. ---
**Author:** ![JoeMario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JoeMario](https://community.cartalk.com/u/JoeMario)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/126 "2022-07-31T18:57:31Z")
> [@VOLVO-V70](#): > > The simple fact that male’s drive about 60 % more miles a year than female’s does not enter the Snowman’s line of thought. > **[Behind the Wheel, Women Are Safer Drivers Than Men (Published 2020)](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/well/live/car-accidents-deaths-men-women.html)** > > Compared with women, male drivers of cars and vans were involved in twice as many fatal accidents. > But compared with women, male drivers of cars and vans had twice the rate of fatal accidents **per mile driven**. - ---
**Author:** ![JoeMario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JoeMario](https://community.cartalk.com/u/JoeMario)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/127 "2022-07-31T19:01:43Z")
Side comment: This thread, and many others, have been generating a lot of “noise”, which wastes a lot of time when trying to find meaningful content. The more that noise is reduced, the more active this site becomes with meaningful exchange of information. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/128 "2022-07-31T19:25:43Z")
The noise is coming mostly from one person without any real content. ---
**Author:** ![weekend-warrior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/weekend-warrior/32/26122_2.png) [@weekend-warrior](https://community.cartalk.com/u/weekend-warrior)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/129 "2022-07-31T19:28:49Z")
I am not sure about men driving more than women. I keep telling my daughter to stop driving all over the place because she is going way over her miles on her lease. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/130 "2022-07-31T22:39:50Z")
> [@JoeMario](#): > > This thread, and many others, have been generating a lot of “noise”, Some users just want to twist words, insult, and mis quote. They’re only interested in finding fault with what someone said raither than improving it. Anyway, thanks for contributing. In the article you linked it says: > [@](#): > > and motorcycles were about twice as dangerous to other road users as cars. It says that per km traveled, the risk to other road users (ORUs) by motorcycles was about twice that of cars. Can you make sense of this? Presumably they kill a lot of pedestrians. It’s saying that a motorcycle rider is twice as likely to kill someone else than someone driving a car. I never imagined such a thing. Here is a link to the original study: [https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/27/1/71.full.pdf](https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/27/1/71.full.pdf) An interesting thing is that although men have a much higher fatal accident rate than women, the number of small accidents caused by men or women is about the same per mile. I think men tend to drive longer distances on more dangerous highways. Although accidents per mile are fewer, they are much more likely to be fatal. Women tend to stay in town and go shopping, where there are more cars on the roads but at slower speeds. > [@](#): > > The Federal Highway Administration reports that men drive an average of 16,550 miles each year. Women drive an average of 10,142 miles per year, > […] > While men cause more accidents than women, women have a slightly higher risk of being involved in accidents per mile driven. > **[Do men or women cause more accidents?](https://www.victimslawyer.com/blog/do-men-or-women-cause-more-accidents/)** > > There is a long-running stereotype that women are poor drivers as compared to men. While there are gender-related differences in the accident rates, the statistics do not necessarily show that ... In the male verus female fatal accident IIHS data that I was using, it shows a decline in male versus female fatalities up until about 1998. I think most of this was due to increased male seat belt use. After 1998, the gender gap stops narrowing. I think load limiters began to give females a small advantage in frontal crashes, and federally mandated side impact structure as well as side airbags helped women and shorter people survive side impact crashes more than taller people who tend to be men. There are other things too consider such as the SUV craze, where men liked driving larger vehicles that are more likely to kill others in non SUVs. Then in the late 90s tall vehicles began to have lowered front ends reduce bumper override which is very dangerous to shoter vehicles when they get hit. And then even the weak 4kN load limters DO improve the survival rate for the elderly, frail, and smaller people. It all gets quite complicated. Even the load limiter study that I linked to admits that it is hard to know what effect load limiters have had since they became standard at the same time as other safety features. These would be airbags, pretensioners, side impact structures, stronger crash structures that don’t collapse like the 1997 F-150, and side airbags. > [@](#): > > Women still have plenty of fender-benders. [A 1993 study](http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/1007/83596.0001.001.pdf) by the University of Michigan found that women had higher rates of non-injury accidents than men for every age group over 25. A more recent study revealed that women were more likely to be struck [while making turns](http://autos.aol.com/article/women-worse-drivers/) at an intersection. Source: [Car Insurance: Women Have More Fender-Benders, but Men Pay More - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-07-25/car-insurance-women-have-more-fender-benders-but-men-pay-more) ---
**Author:** ![Old-Days-Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7feea3/32.png) [@Old-Days-Rick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Old-Days-Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/131 "2022-08-01T16:22:44Z")
This kind of reminds me of that time when people where I live that barely graduated high school suddenly become experts in infectious diseases and virology. I’ll say this, safety systems in vehicles are great, they really are. However not everyone is cit out to drive a vehicle, we need much more intensive driver training, weed out those who just cant hamdle driving. And if we really wanted to make the roads safer we would get serious about preventing impaired driving and punishing those who are caught. I am currently making calls to a Senator here in Indiana about such matters and I want to know why he wants to defeat proposed impared driving prevention from being incorperated into vehicles. I demand amswers. He must be getting money from the biggest drug dealer there is, the booze industry. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/132 "2022-08-01T21:39:06Z")
> [@Old-Days-Rick](#): > > people where I live that barely graduated high school suddenly become experts in infectious diseases and virology. That is reminiscent of a New Yorker magazine cartoon from a couple of years ago. Visualize a guy peering at his computer screen and saying the following to his wife: _Hey honey, look at this. I found information that every M.D. and medical researcher managed to miss!_ 😏 ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/133 "2022-11-17T21:03:26Z")
I think I have discovered a major flaw in the study which shows that there are fewer fatalities in passenger cars equipped with seat belt load limiters. The first generation airbags in older vehicles that were not equipped with the 4kN torson bar type load limiters are much more powerful than what is found in later vehicles with load limiters. This consideration was not taken in to account in the study. The older airbags can save an unbelted person’s life at speeds as high as 50 MPH. Due to the way the data was gathered in the study, where at least one occupant must die, this skewed the average crash speeds for load limiter equipped vehicles to be significantly less than vehicles not equipped with load limiters. An honest summary of the study should have read like this: Our study finds that vehicles equipped with load limiters which are in 30 MPH crashes are more effective at saving the lives of belted occupants compared to belted occupants in vehicles which are not equipped with load limiters that are in 40 MPH crashes. ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 1:16am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/134 "2022-11-18T01:16:10Z")
Enough already!!! [https://media.tenor.com/X6E3tjmanvYAAAAC/stop-already-dead.gif(image larger than 4 MB)](https://media.tenor.com/X6E3tjmanvYAAAAC/stop-already-dead.gif) ---
**Author:** ![insightsmuse\_183253](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/insightsmuse_183253/32/31673_2.png) [@insightsmuse\_183253](https://community.cartalk.com/u/insightsmuse_183253)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:54am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/135 "2022-12-07T09:54:21Z")
thank you for sharing the info[.](https://kohiclicks.com/blog/) ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 4:09am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/136 "2024-04-16T04:09:54Z")
Here is something that I found out about. A lot of women are killed due to injuries from the lap portion of the seat belt. The lap portion generally does not have a load limiter in the typical modern car that has the limiter in the shoulder portion. This issue especially affects over weight women. Women tend to gain weight in the legs. If the lap portion of the belt is up too high it can be very bad. Imagine all the weight of the legs, times 15, being held by a belt going over the bellybutton area. Not only does the weight gain in the legs increase the low down weight, but it causes the lap portion of the belt to sit dangerously high. In severe accidents it is fairly common for women to die due to internal bleeding in the abdomen. I was looking through CISS data and was surprised to see how common this type of injury was. ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839/137 "2024-04-16T21:09:26Z")
Interesting. It’s got to be difficult for car designers to come up with safety system designs that can handle every body type imaginable. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/how-hard-is-it-to-disable-or-adjust-a-seat-belt-load-limiter-to-improve-safety/179839.md?page=6)