This morning it was reported that there was a crash in a NY suburb, involving a 2005 Prius.
It is alleged that the accelerator “stuck”.
Here we go again.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gqsuKMYvxgHUSvYrxeuJvo-mWHzAD9EBSHI82
The brakes WON’T bring a runaway car to a complete stop. If the brakes are got on hard, and kept applied, they will SLOW the car to 20 or 30 mph. For details of cars tested for brake control of runaway vehicles, see the March 2010 issue of Car and Driver.
I’m not referring to the other people; I’m referring to Mr. Sikes. His excuses are flimsy to say the least “I didn’t want to put it into neutral because I didn’t want the car to flip” Really? Did he check his trunk for the boogy man before he set off?
I’d also be willing to bet that some, if not most, of the other incidents were preventable, but people panicked and made irrational choices.
Here’s a counter example to that.
I have that issue of Car & Driver. I’ve read the article, and posted a link to it in another thread. They were able to stop all the cars tested. One, the 500+ HP Mustang, took a long time, but it did finally stop.
Generally I would agree with you except for the fact the trooper said he saw the Prius brakelights were on and smelled hot brakes. I would think with all the inspections being done on it now by the feds & Toyota both, if it is a hoax it will come out.
The only way for these instances to be preventable is for Toyota to sell a safe, reliable car. As it is, these cars are dangerous to the occupants and anyone caught in the way of them.
The irrational choice would be to drive one of these cars without finding out and correcting the cause first.
The more I learn about these Toyotas the more resolved I am not to get in one until the problem is fixed. The company is relying on the public’s ignorance at this point.
Cant you lock the wheels anymore or does the ABS system keep the brakes fluttering till they fade?(I remember what a safety hazard the first ABS systems were that were installed on heavy duty trucks)-Kevin
It’s easy to say you’d do this, or you’d do that, or they should do this or that. But when it comes right down to it, can you REALLY do it? When some panic, all logic and reason fly out the window, and can even forget the most basic of functions other than fight or flight.
Until I first started reading about the Toyota problems, I never knew about putting the trans in neutral, I doubt most people know about it even now.
In other news, I hear Toyota is thinking of renaming itself to “Skynet” 
I’ve never driven a Prius, so I have to rely on what I read and hear about them. From what I’m gathering here, (a) the gearshift is electronically controlled, and the car MIGHT not allow a shift to neutral during heavy acceleration, and (b) in a worst case scenario, if one were to turn off the ignition, it requires pushing and holding the start/stop button for a minimum of four seconds.
It is this second point that concerns me. Is this to say, that in the event of an emergency (such as uncontrolled acceleration at 90 mph), I am required to remove a hand from the steering wheel and push a button in for FOUR seconds just to shut off the engine? At 90 mph, four seconds is 528 feet! I find that to be a serious safety issue just by itself. On my vehicle (which, incidentally, has a throttle cable and a manual ignition switch) I simply can turn the key and my engine stops immediately. Every time.
Couple of points about switching into neutral:
The Prius has a rather small gearshift lever on the dash, rather than the typical large one on the floor. It doesn’t stay in position, as do most gearshift levers, but goes back to the center after you’ve released it.
To switch to neutral, you have to push the lever directly to the left. And remember: 1) The lettering on that lever is small and 2) Neutral is not normally used while operating any automatic transmission car. So, if you haven’t bothered to learn how to switch to neutral before, to teach yourself how in an emergency, you will have to peer at some rather small lettering on a gearshift lever while your car is ambling towards 90+ mph.
Someone mentioned keys. The Prius (at least the one I’ve driven) doesn’t operate with a key, but with a fob. So you have to turn it off with the start button, apparently by holding it for three seconds if the car is actually moving (I’ve never tried this out). That only works if you know about it AND you have three seconds to spare. And remember, before that trooper and his family were killed, runaway cars weren’t even on the radar. So, at least before then, it’s understandable if someone did not know the correct procedures for stopping a runaway Prius.
In an ideal world, we would know all sorts of emergency procedures for driving, just as we would for many other facets of our lives. However, this is the real world, and many people just see a car as a way to get from point A to point B. I think sometimes the members of this board, who tend to spend a lot of time on cars, in one way or another, forget that the general public sees cars in a different light.
To answer OP’s original question I think the mass hysteria over this is NOT justified, however. Probably many more Toyota owners are dying out there of the more prosaic causes: drunk driving, distracted driving, and reckless driving, than will ever be harmed by runaway cars. This problem needs to be investigated carefully and fixed, but it is not deserving of the huge media storm it has generated.
To answer the second question, investigators have ways of determining what really happened. If this particular person’s story doesn’t add up, I’m sure it will meet the same fate as the “balloon boy” story. If it does add up, then it’s another indication of a real problem.
Scrabbler
CPLWeeks. I won’t call you cynical. I might call you a realist.
“How common is it…”. The NHTSA just released the number of complaints received on the Prius by problem by year. For acceleration problems there were 8 complaints in 2008, 74 complaints in 2009 and 272 complaints (and counting) in the first ten weeks of 2010. For braking problems (?) there were 20 or fewer complaints in 2007 and previous years, 90 complaints in 2009 and 1,816 complaints (and counting) in the first ten weeks of 2010. If these numbers reflect reality, I would love to hear an explanation.
Somewhere under multiple layers of hysteria, and some who are deliberately looking for a free-bee and their 15 minutes of fame, there is a real problem that has and will kill and seriously injure people. Add to this the countless litigation lawsuit lawyers who want in on the action, politicians looking to grandstand and PR types selling a cover story. Now try and find a common sense and quick solution that will keep Prius drivers both assured and safe.
I agree. I’ve read that issue as well. But I can think of a situation in which the brakes may not stop the car—that would be if the driver rode the brakes, not putting them on hard enough to stop the car, but merely slow it. The brakes would eventually heat up to the point that they would no longer be effective.
What I first noticed was the fact that he did not even try to use the emergency brake until the cop pulled up alongside him and suggested he do so–hollering through his PA system. The driver said this only worked because he was, at that time, going uphill.
Secondly, he did not attempt to shut off the engine (according to all the news reports I saw on the subject) until the very end when he was already stopped. Fox TV reported he told the cop that he didn’t want to shut the engine off because he thought that would cause him to lose his power steering–as though that would be a problem driving on the freeway with a car this light.
Similarly there was no mention of his EVER trying to shift this vehicle into neutral.
To me these things would be no-brainers (and years ago when I totally lost the brakes in my 1961 Corvair going down a steep hill with lots of traffic), I just automatically pulled the parking brake without even thinking. This guy was not a new driver, folks, but 61 years old!
I agree. There is a serious problem under all of this. In addition to deaths and injuries, I have seen news reports about Toyota drivers in Minnesota and California who said they experienced unintended sudden acceleration and they did not have a long freeway to deal with it. Instead they hit other cars or people and deaths resulted. The drivers were jailed for vehicular homicide or reckless driving related crimes, and are still in jail. This was before the media attention and recalls. Toyota was still denying there was a problem. Now they are saying it is fixed. I won’t drive one.
I wonder how many of the reports would have been made if there had not been any publicity? I wonder how many are from drivers who were texting and hit someone and decided to use this as an excuse?
That is not to say there is no problem, but I suspect there has been some lying going on. In any case it appears that even with the possible inflated numbers, it is not a very common issue, and only a small percentage of owners have reported problems.
I talked to my brother about the “electronics” as the potential issue on Toyota products. He is a retired electrical engineer and was the chief designer of many of the train mass transit and railway control systems - the ones where the train runs itself with a human keeping an eye on things.
He was consulted a few months ago about the train accident and helped to determine the railway was switching to a new control system and had installed the new system on a section of track without comprehending that the old system and new one were incompatible. Stupid human error.
Back to Toyota, he said all computer controls should have an absolute fail safe software package in place. In the case of Toyota he suspects their fail safe software is flawed. Since Toyota runs propriatary software, only Toyota engineers and software designers understand their unique system. Bottom line, if the brakes are applied the throttle should be shut off - period. This is the only fail safe option that works. Currently Toyota’s software doesn’t do this, at least not all the time.
If someone out there drives a Toyota Camry or Prius (2009 or 2010) and is willing to experiment. Go 50 mph and maintain speed with the gas petal and apply the brakes. Then report back what happens. Does the throttle stay active? Or, is the throttle “killed” when the brakes are applied?
Whether it is electrical interference or whatever - all electronic systems are imperfect, all software either has or can develope errors, and humans are full of errors - there must be a fail safe default designed and built into the software that overrides “errors” and safely stops the vehicle.
My motorcycle has a kill switch on the right handlebar, maybe that’s an idea for car makers to adapt.
The engine cut-off switch isn’t really designed to help you control your out-of control vehicle. For that, you should really use your clutch. If you were to make the mistake of using the engine cut-off switch without using the clutch, you will not have control of your motorcycle. In fact, you would be lucky to remain upright.
I don’t know about the Prius, but if indeed it is impossible to take it out of gear while in motion, you would be better off with a switch that disengages the engine from the transmission than you would an engine cut-off switch.