# Hill-holder **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023 "2011-07-07T10:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![abxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7c8e57/32.png) [@abxxx](https://community.cartalk.com/u/abxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/1 "2011-07-07T10:18:58Z")
Can anyone tell me which cars today have a hill-holder (or automatic brake lock when you put your foot on the brake)? Thank you. abxxx ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/2 "2011-07-07T13:07:50Z")
All manual transmission Subarus have this feature, as do all 2010 and newer Subaru Outbacks–including manual trans, CVT, and conventional automatic trans Outback models. Some manual trans VWs also have this feature, but I will leave it to others to fill in the blanks regarding which VWs are included. ---
**Author:** ![mcparadise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mcparadise/32/32_2.png) [@mcparadise](https://community.cartalk.com/u/mcparadise)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/3 "2011-07-07T17:17:58Z")
Wasn’t this question asked about a week ago? ---
**Author:** ![doubleclutch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/doubleclutch/32/1281_2.png) [@doubleclutch](https://community.cartalk.com/u/doubleclutch)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/4 "2011-07-08T00:58:26Z")
Someone did ask about hill holders very recently. I posted in that thread that every manual car with properly positioned pedals has a hill holder. You put one side of your right foot on the brake, the other side on the throttle, and slide off of the brake as you engage the clutch. ---
**Author:** ![stevegaarder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@stevegaarder](https://community.cartalk.com/u/stevegaarder)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/5 "2011-07-19T15:42:16Z")
Yes, I started an earlier thread, and got a little information, but most of the posts were off-topic, questioning whether anyone should need or want such a device. I would appreciate it if people would respect the original posters’ evaluation of their own needs and desires. I did do a little more research, and found a parts site that shows hill holder parts available for the 96-99 Legacy, and the 2003 and newer Forester, so I assume it was at least an option on those cars. On the newest cars, the feature is part of the programming of the computer that controls the brakes. I also think it might be possible to retrofit one, either with the Subaru parts or with one of the brake lock devices popular with drag racers. The trick in either case is getting it to release at the right point as you let out the clutch. ---
**Author:** ![Whitey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/whitey/32/24680_2.png) [@Whitey](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Whitey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/6 "2011-07-19T16:33:36Z")
Every manual transmission car has a hill holder. Normally, it’s called a “parking brake” or “hand brake.” The only downside is that it must be manually deactivated. ---
**Author:** ![meaneyedcatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meaneyedcatz/32/692_2.png) [@meaneyedcatz](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meaneyedcatz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/7 "2011-07-20T03:33:24Z")
If there is a physical limitation then search out this hill holder or purchase a vehicle with an auto trans. Otherwise the best hill holder is simply learn to drive a clutch in all situations. ---
**Author:** ![EllyEllis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f14d63/32.png) [@EllyEllis](https://community.cartalk.com/u/EllyEllis)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/8 "2011-07-22T17:50:40Z")
An automatic transmission works well as a "hill holder’ for me ---
**Author:** ![chaissos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/chaissos/32/2347_2.png) [@chaissos](https://community.cartalk.com/u/chaissos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/9 "2011-07-22T18:13:55Z")
Even an automatic will roll backwards on an uphill slant, if you move your foot from the brake to the gas. My 4Runner (and probably many others) specifically has a built in “hill holder” (I think they call it “anti-roll feature”), but it’s also an automatic. It’s designed specifically to stop that roll between brake and gas. ---
**Author:** ![redstack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@redstack](https://community.cartalk.com/u/redstack)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/10 "2011-07-23T21:31:48Z")
Ok look! enough with the snide any car has one stuff. I want to get a manual car but my wife is tired of dealing with seattle hills and hand brakes and all that falderal. So the old hill holder is a good option for both of us. As far as I know Mini’s and Subies are the only modern cars with a real hill holder. ---
**Author:** ![waterboy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/waterboy/32/764_2.png) [@waterboy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/waterboy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/11 "2011-07-23T21:43:52Z")
You know more than we do! It sounds like a neat option, but have never had or heard of one until a Subaru discussion a while back. Happy hills! Toyota and Ford manual trans had no such options in the last 2 manual trans cars I purchased. ---
**Author:** ![Whitey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/whitey/32/24680_2.png) [@Whitey](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Whitey)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/12 "2011-07-24T00:19:01Z")
redstack, if your wife doesn’t want to bother with a hand brake, wouldn’t she be happier with an automatic? The hill holder really isn’t that much of an improvement over the hand brake. ---
**Author:** ![meaneyedcatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meaneyedcatz/32/692_2.png) [@meaneyedcatz](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meaneyedcatz)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/13 "2011-07-24T03:39:29Z")
redstack…please don’t get defensive, I have not noticed any snide comments here. Answers it seems were based on info given and there was not a lot of that. If you are new here you must learn to have thick skin since some try to help and some try to disturb the peace. Others seem to give $100 worth of info for a $5 question. ---
**Author:** ![chunky\_azian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@chunky\_azian](https://community.cartalk.com/u/chunky_azian)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 9:08am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/14 "2011-07-24T09:08:46Z")
Unless there’s a physical disability, not wanting to use the hand brake is a driver’s problem rather than a car problem. People all over the world have done hill starts in manual transmission cars without automatic hill holders for over a century. Most of them do it using the parking brake. It is how a car is meant to be driven uphill. It is a pity to limit the choices of cars due hill holder availability. ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/15 "2011-07-24T16:41:10Z")
**_Take Few Minutes To Learn To “Heel & Toe”. You Don’t Need Hill Holder Or Hand Brakes. Then Just Pick The Car You Like._** Seems silly to not buy a car because you don’t spend a few minutes learning to drive it properly. There are folks who don’t drive manual transmission cars because they won’t learn how to use a clutch and shift gears. They’re stuck in only automatics. I’m with Doubleclutch on this one. I’ve probably logged half a million miles heel & toeing manual transmission cars ( I’ve owned several). Just one of my cars now has a manual, but the largest hills don’t bother me. CSA ---
**Author:** ![oldoutbackowner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ce73a5/32.png) [@oldoutbackowner](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldoutbackowner)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/16 "2011-07-24T19:01:39Z")
I had a 1986 Subaru GL wagon, manual transmission, and it came with a hill holder as a regular feature. That didn’t mean much to us when we first bought it, because we were living in a relatively flat area. That all changed when we moved to San Francisco. We didn’t drive much there (didn’t need to), but when we did, that hill holder was very much appreciated. I don’t know of any cars other than Subarus and Minis that might have them, though. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![redstack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@redstack](https://community.cartalk.com/u/redstack)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/17 "2011-07-24T23:03:31Z")
Look this isn’t a question of buying enough cars to have one for every occasion. Unlike Democrats and Republicans this is about compromise. If you are only going to have one car, why not try to find one that makes all parties happy. So that doesn’t mean that it has to be strictly an slushbox to make it acceptable to the woman I am sleeping with (for the last 27 yrs.). There are options, either a manual with hill holder for those 6 times a month you might stop on a hill or maybe a dual clutch gear box so that I can use it to autox once in a while as well. Remember that the old hand brake isn’t that common on US cars, a foot brake isn’t nearly as easy to work when starting from a hilly stop. As for heel and toe, yea I do that at every corner when driving my hot rod miata, but my wife doesn’t find it that much fun. I hate driving my wife’s CRV because it’s such an appliance, I’m trying to move her towards something a little more fun. And a WRX or Mini isn’t a bad choice, it could make us both happy. Same for a nice bmw wagon if it had SMG or maybe a VW gti. The OP was asking about what cars had hill holders, not about how if he were a better driver he wouldn’t have to ask a silly question like that. ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/18 "2011-07-24T23:41:23Z")
**_I Enjoyed Your Comments. Compromise (“Unlike Democrats and Republicans this is about compromise.”) Is What Got Us Into This Mess Of Bigger Government, Out Of Control Spending, And High Taxes. It’s No Time To Compromise, But Time To Cut Spending, Cut Taxes, And Shrink The Size And Scope Of Government._** CSA ---
**Author:** ![Triedaq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Triedaq](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Triedaq)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/19 "2011-07-25T00:01:45Z")
I think we need a hill-holder in Washington. Let’s hold the house and senate in session on capital hill with the hill-holder until they reach a budget agreement. ---
**Author:** ![redstack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@redstack](https://community.cartalk.com/u/redstack)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023/20 "2011-07-25T03:58:30Z")
OH man I really didn’t mean for this to go down a political path. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/hill-holder/66023.md?page=2)