“Production aircraft (Piper, Cirrus, Cessna, etc) get their engines from mfrs other than Subaru for a reason.”
The first and foremost reason being that they have no choice. They HAVE to use a certified engine. The Sonex on the other hand, designed for the use of a VW engine, can literally fly circles around Piper, Cirrus, Cessna, etc.
Yep, thanks for pointing that out. Sonex? Never heard of it. I’d better google that one.
I realized I was rude to Ed in my O.P. I’ll accept that. I’m sorry.
Upon more consideration I realized that Ed might be ok if he completes the project and flies locally, but if he plans to use the plane practically and go places, my vote is still for a nice, low-time certified engine. Turbo’d too if he so desires to fly in the rockies…
Honestly before today, I didn’t realize that people using auto-engines in even E-planes was common. Again, I learned something new. I certainly didn’t mean to insult the art but its just not a route I’d prefer to go if it was my airplane. But it isn’t. Different strokes for different folks.
Kind regards.
Yes. My Motorcycle Was Parked In The Back Of The Garage When My First Child Was Expected. It’s Still There 24 Years Later.
Motorcycles are much more dangerous than cars. Home made aircraft, experimental aircraft, gyro-copters, and helicopters are much more dangerous than factory built, brand name airplanes, with everthing else being equal.
I worked at two different busy airports for many years. I don’t need to research anything, thank you.
CSA
CSA said “They don’t all turn out that way”.
Of course you are correct about emergency landings CSA, but missleman’s statement implied that ALL engine failures result in death for the pilot. Nothing could be farther from the truth. IF they did, I wouldn’t be typing this.
WOW! Finally someone posted who is a pro in this field. It’s been almost as though I’ve been fighting this fight alone.
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Ed, there are several really good posts for you, by builders who are actually using Subaru engines (Brian, in particular) and other informed pilots. Hopefully you can sort through the noise and use the good info. Here’s my story:
I’m a professional pilot for a major airline. I built an RV-7A and installed a Subaru H-6 engine. I have 300 hours on the aircraft and engine. I have had the same problems with the gearbox and cooling issues that all the other Subaru users have had. The engine itself has run very well and has never skipped a beat in 300 hours of use. I live in Wyoming and fly the airplane to work in SLC almost every week. I trust the airplane and engine completely because, after all, given the mountainous terrain I am flying over I am betting my life every time, just like a Lycoming user would. The question becomes, if I had to do it over, would I use a Subaru engine? And the answer is a very definite no. Why? Because, as a Subaru owner, I am part of the continuing research and development project of the manufacturer of this engine package. I am continually being told of this issue and that issue with the engine or the gearbox which I must address to continue to fly safely. If I had it to do over I would install a mid-time carbureted Lycoming with a fixed pitch propeller and be done with it. I was sucked in by the hype of the Subaru and I regret it very much. That being said, it’s too expensive to swap it out so I suck it up and continue to fly the Sooby. My bottom line advice? Install a Lycoming and never look back. You will spend more for fuel and more for an overhaul but believe me, you will never regret it. BTW, the 46u is my airport identifier and you can track me down through that if you want to talk to me personally. Keep pounding those rivets, it’s an awesome thing to fly an airplane you built yourself!
Goodness gracious. I have no qualifications in this area, so I am hesitant to venture into this arena, what with all the swinging twigs and berries.
Where did the first airplane engine come from?
The first airplane was built by bicycle mechanics. Am I the only one who has heard of the Bede airplane kits?
To deaconb: one bolt failing caused a wing to fall off (Law & Order sound effect here)???
As I recall, Ed said the Subaru engine option was a Legacy model engine. I drove Subarus for years (thru the 1980s - 1990s), and after 100,000 miles or so, they all (except the XT6, which I didn’t have as long) developed a ticking sound. I know nothing about airplanes, and not much more about cars, but I believe the ticking has something to do with the valve lifters.
I’m sure Tom and Ray and probably a lot of other posters here can comment further on the ticking, and ramifications it might have for flight. From my perspective, as devoted as I was to Subarus, there’s no way I’d want to be up in the air relying on a Subaru Legacy engine. I’d go with the tried, tested, and true-blue airplane engine.
Good luck Ed, and be safe!
Paula
Zomiewoof said “Where did the first airplane engine come from”?
I have long been more impressed by the fact that Wilbur and Orville BUILT their own engine than by the fact that they built their plane. I know several (probably dozens) of guys who have built planes, but none who has built an engine. The Wright brothers contracted for most of the parts to their design and put it all together. Lo and behold it worked, and produced 12 horsepower.
Talk About Sullenberger And Gliding And Unscheduled Landings . . .
An Air Canada Boeing 767 with 69 people on board ran completely out of fuel on a flight from Ottawa to Edmondton in the summer of 1983 following a mix-up involving loading fuel in pounds vs. kilograms.
The crew glided about 60 miles and made a deadstick landing at the former Royal Canadian Air Force Base at Gimli, Manitoba, with only 2 passengers suffering minor injuries. (I’ll bet that thing was hauling when it touched the runway !)
The NY Times described this as the “First Successful Dead Stick Landing Of A Commercial Jetliner”. The captain who pulled it off just happened to be a glider pilot in addition to being an airline pilot.
CSA
*** Carb ice is not an issue for either type of engine.***
Exactly. But a converted automobile engine is not necessarily either of those types. Even if provisions have been made to discourage icing in the converted engine, it’s perhaps not 100% certain that the provisions are adequate. … Only one way to find out.
Personally, I think I’d like a proven aircraft designed engine in anything where an engine failure was likely to lead to death or major bodily harm.
Regrettably, in today’s news, a man jogging in Hilton Head, S.C. was killed by a kit plane possibly from the same manufacturer as the caller’s. The kit comes from an Oregon based company without an engine just like the caller described. The pilot and passenger survived after crash landing on the beach. It seems the propeller fell off.
Please, please, please go with a Continental or Lycoming aircraft engine - for all the obvious reasons. I’ve ran airboats for years (both aircraft and automotive engines) and will argue until I run out of breath that you are better off using an aircraft engine. Ed neglected to mention that aircraft engines have TWO magnetos. And that gear reduction setup that will be mounted off the automotive engine is typically belt driven - when that breaks your airplane becomes a glider. This is not the place to save a few dollars. I would feel more at ease with an aircraft engine that was over on hours, rebuilt and NOT certified for flight than a new car engine.
Just another sign of Ed’s lack of knowledge - it sounded like he considered magnetos ‘old fashoned’, when, in fact, they are absolutely the best, most reliable method to generate ignition in this application.
First Mr Stevens, let me say that yours is probably the ONLY truly qualified post in this thread. Also you definitely have a cast iron pair to fly in that area in that plane. I’m sure you have to fly IFR at least some of the time. Do you also fly commercial out of Jackson Hole when the Subaru RV-4 just won’t do the trick, or does that ever happen? A fellas gotta get to work somehow.
I was not aware that Aviat is built at 46U as well as at least one Vans RV-4.
I also note that Fuji Heavy Industries (parent company of Subaru) used Lycs in their own Aero Subaru singles. They quit making them many years ago.
Seen the Bede plans before-the one using stock aluminum shapes-(anybody hear of using Suzuki engines?)-Kevin
Did you ever notice how an airplane can come down all the way across the country and it will make the national news. That’s because it’s so RARE.
Also note that the LanceAir turboprop and the Vans home built plane are about as similar as a Mercedes and a Yugo.
eyajeyajeyaj said
“And that gear reduction setup that will be mounted off the automotive engine is typically belt driven.”
That may be true in SOME cases, but not this one.
http://www.eggenfellneraircraft.com/Subarubased%20Aircraft%20Engines/_Subarubased%20engines.html
Besides, the belts I’ve seen were about 4" wide, and easily inspected for wear during preflight inspection. They aren’t going to break without warning. I’ve even seen a V-6 3.8L Ford powering an old Cessna with a belt driven set up. That would not have been my choice of engine. Sounded weird too. That was almost 30 years ago. They flew it that way for several years before selling the plane.
I dont care what engine he uses, so long as its fuel injected (unlike the spitfires, that couldnt handle dives too well), and can handle serious oil entrainment.
Holy Cow ! Get Your Kids Off The Street ! Is This Kind Of Thinking What We’ve Got In The Sky ? Is There Any Doubt That Using A Factory Built Aircraft Engine Is A Necessity ?
This is what it’s so frightening. When one wonders whether to half-bake adapt a car engine to an aircraft or use tried and true technology, then what the heck corners are cut or bad decisions are being made in the construction of the airframe ?
Couldn’t you imagine a discussion like this one in a Piper, Beechcraft, or Cessna Factory ?
“Do you think we need a crankshaft thrust bearing ? How about a second magneto ? Nah, let’s just run with it .”
Thanks for letting me in on the behind-the-scenes world of home made airplanes.
Are there any life insurance salesman monitoring this discussion ?
CSA