Um, excuse me, but when cars kill people, we regulate them (see the Ford Pinto as an example). When people get killed in a plane crash, we find the cause and regulate the airline industry to save future lives. These things save lives whether you admit it or not.
Bing, your argument is old, tired, and unsubstantiated. Believe it or not, there are people who don’t commit crimes because of the penalties. To claim otherwise is effin’ batsh## crazy, and you know it.
…and when you compare massacres to natural events, like floods and tornadoes, I’m going to have to insist you not treat me like a fool.
People have the same feelings they did decades ago. How they act them out depends upon their own individual circumstances. We would not be having this conversation, as easily years ago. Nor would the conversation be about weapons if they were back powder. That many innocent people were killed when a deranged person acts on his feelings, the technology we as a society place at the hand of these people is as much to blame as the cause. At some point, weaponry will be so advanced, you can kill without being in the same room of even facing your victim. Do you want to wait till then to tell the NRA leadership that something has to be done and the second amendment does not give everyone free access to so easily kill so many innocents in the name of self defense ?
@bing I don’t believe you can put the solution at the doorstep of one individual or one cause. But opportunity is one of the single biggest contributing factors to antisocial behavior, regardless of what it is. If people want to deny that and provide opportunity to kill with ever increasing ease, at least these people must accept the responsibility. Gun makers or those who choose not to legislate greater control, have not.
Hate is hate,we stopped burning witches a long time ago.Anyway the poster who said $2 a round for high powered rifles erred a bit on the cheap side ,during our little discussion today the general consensus was probaly a cost of$5-$6 a round for good .50 cal ammo.The cheap stuff is caseloads of 7.62 nato ammo(.308) quite a powerful round in its own right.
At anyrate,I favor guns that you cannot cycle as fast.One reason to not carry a gun,is the damage it can inflict in a moment of passion.I heard a sad tale about the trouble a convenient gun caused.Anyway if you can imagine this-it is now legal to carry a concealed weapon into a bar in good ol’ VA.
As for me give me a revolver,bolt action or pump weapon,thats plenty of firepower for the average person-Kevin
For many years my business involved handling relatively large sums of cash and working alone long past dark and my route home was through a bad neighborhood. In an effort to avoid anyone attempting to rob me I bought a Colt 45 automatic and whenever someone unfamiliar came in after hours I made certain that the pistol was easily recognized hanging out my back pocket. Rumors spread and I never had a problem. Maybe I wouldn’t have had a problem anyway. Who knows. But that pistol is one of the most recognizable and intimidating and someone paid me more the 3 times what I paid for it… I don’t fault anyone for wanting to protect themselves and their family but if a 50 caliber or an M60 is needed moving might be in order.
News story here, robber takes gun and duct tapes victim. I am not opposed to guns, but a teacher should not be required to have a gun to kill someone as part of the job description. Sure I think my black belt in Tai Kwan Do will give me the ability to survive a close encounter with a gun wielder, but remember the guy left his assault rifle in the car and used I assume hollow point bullets. I do like if guns were outlawed only outlaws would have guns. If an individual is intent on hurt and pain to others laws will not make any difference.
Right Barkydog !
Arming teachers is a suit begging to happen. The courts do not recognize the fire arm training that teachers would get to serve in this use. Elementary schools can be 90% plus women who are expected to do something that most have NEVER considered when applying for and preparing for an elementary education teaching certificate. YOU NEED qualified police officers who receive ongoing training.
Laymen think that firearm training is a matter of shooting at targets and how to take apart a gun. It’s much more then that. It’s training on when not to shoot , how to retain and secure a weapon and knowledge of the laws relative to the confrontation involving a firearm. IMO you should have the authority and training to detain to do protection in schools competently. Imagine a 60 year old female teacher detaining an adult male. Their job is not to shoot at every perceived threat !
It’s safer to put a trained cop (by state and federal authorities) on the teaching staff then make a teacher a cop.
Conservative pundits are absolutely INSANE for ever suggesting “training” school personel to carry firearms in a school filled with kids. It’s up to all of us to recognize these dumb suggestions for what they are intended…taking your eye off the gun control ball. I hear Newt G. railing on this suggestion all the time. A presidential candidate ? No wonder the Republicans lost the presidential election.
IMHO, before you arm any teachers, they would need:
-initial S.W.A.T. training
-routine follow-up S.W.A.T. training to maintain the certification
-initial firearm qualification to make sure these people can hit what they are shooting at
-active shooter training so these people know how to react when there is an active shooter on the premesis and so they can hit what they are shooting at in a crisis
-mandated weekly target practice at a gun range
-an initial thorough psychological profile
-follow-up thorough psychological testing to make sure none of these teachers have gone crazy since they got their certifications
-a thorough initial background check
-monitoring of these teachers criminal records so their right to carry at work could be revoked if necessary
If you advocate all of these common sense precautions, I’d like to see how many teachers qualify to carry a firearm at work, and of those who can qualify, I’d like to see how many are interested in qualifying.
Sorry, but I went to high school in Texas, the state that is proposing arming its teachers, and I’ve known far too many Texas teachers who were mentally unstable to think arming them is a good idea. Have you ever seen an unarmed teacher go berserk in a classroom? I have (TWICE!), and I hate to imagine what would have happened if they had been armed at the time.
I was in the infantry in Nam. Luckily it was at the end of nam and I didn’t see much action. I was in the Army with several good-old-boys who grew up with weapons and hunting since they were 10.
But firing at deer is completely different then firing at a human. I know at least one good-old-boy who couldn’t. Almost got us killed because he was shaking and crying. A person who can shoot another person easily is someone who’s completely A-Moral.
I do not want to take peoples guns away who use it for hunting or protection. The history channel has a show called “How the states were made” and they were talking about places like North Dakota. One of the counties there is the size of New Hampshire…and they have a total of 4 cops. That means it could be HOURS away from help.
I don’t necessarily disagree but then you have to be willing to pay the price for the extra professional security. You need to match the threat with the response is all. Leaving hundreds of kids defenseless except for a locked door is not a good response. In Minneapolis today, a staff member had her pistol in a locked locker in the staff break room. She has a license to carry. She is on leave now and they are considering whether or not she should be charged. I just think this is ridiculous. She has been trained, passed the legal requirements, and had it locked up. This should not be a problem. Same as former military pilots keeping a weapon in the cockpit. Not required but certainly not illegal.
The thing is there are all of these people that have had no experience whatsoever with guns and are scared to death to even see one. They have no idea the difference between an automatic or semi-automatic. What used to be banned and what isn’t now. The level of fear and ignorance is just astounding.
Gun Free School Zone act is a federal statute prohibiting firearms in schools and is a problem for this lady. Unless you are a cop on duty, you are liable. I refereed a basketball game with an off duty cop who inadvertently brought his back up weapon in the school in his uniform bag. When he opened it up, the gun fell out. A manager and the AD were in the changing room. We joked a little about it to break the ice as everyone stared in disbelief, but he was some upset. He pocketed the gun immediately and rushed out the door to his car to lock it up outside. He was an off duty cop and he was not immune either. Schools are completely different locations by law then most other. His town chief required the officers to carry while off duty…so he was caught unaware while rushing to do the game when I picked him up at his station. So if he doesn’t take it out to his car, still in the school zone by the way, does he leave it unsecured in training room or ref the game with a bulge in his waistband.
Prior to this specific act in 1990, it was covered under other statutes (state and local) that were not specific enough but still made individuals liable for such acts. So it’s not a statement about anyone’s qualifications; it’s a statute everyone is obliged to follow.
There is a major disconnect going on. A gun in school is a safety hazard. dot period end. How do we prevent a whacko from shooting up anything? I see no easy answer. The law abiding citizens are not the ones responsible, but to deny every one rights to a gun because some people use guns illegally
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Ben Franklin
@Barkydog
Please remember that not allowing guns in particular places, like schools IS gun control. So just to be sure, almost everyone is in favor of gun control in some form.
Yes we are on the same page there, but we are then facing when and where. I have no love for assault rifles, but have no love for a complete ban on hand guns either. I do not own a hand gun, have no desire to own one, but have no desire to make it illegal for someone to have one if they wish.
What makes road rage so insidious is the presence of a weapon, the car. Put the same person in line at a movie theater where he isn’t insulated when bumped, and has to react face to face, most of the time nothing happens. When it does, without a weapon, the damage is limited. It’s opportunity that is most often the common cause thst results in devastation. When the perpetrator is denied easy opportunity, there is a self limiting factor that more often mitigates the situation then not. An easily available weapon, is an increase in opportunity.
This is a common thread in all the courses I have taken in behavioral sciences and including psychology, sociology, law enforcement and child behavior. Any weapon can be a weapon of mass distruction. But any weapon that provides ease in use and acquisition must be more tightly regulated. It works with the auto mobile, it works with jet skis, it works with atomic energy…it works with instruments are are designed to kill. The black powder weapon, muzzle loader, that of availability to our so called founding fathers, is so difficult to use by most today, it is relatively unregulated and not even considered a firearm by the federal govt. We have come a long way in technology, but not far enough in regulation.
I spent years being a member of a revolution reenactment group. You spent more time avoiding injury when using muzzle loaders it seemed then shooting them at anything; especially true of the flintlocks we had to use. The Cannon crew I was on was actually the safest and even those with good eyesight wore glasses.
Yep,Dagosa-I’m long suffering but,when I snap something usually suffers,viz;(I dont carry a gun,unless I’m in Bear,Coyote or Cougar country{and I realize you have less fear from sane animals then humans}-Kevin
That was some jump on your part @barkydog. Do you deny that road rage is what it is because a car is often used as a weapon ? Tough to discuss when you look at things as either/or. Nearly anything can be used as a weapon. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Weapon