# Growing risk of keyless vehicle thefts through "relay attacks" **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918 "2024-05-16T15:53:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Robert-Gift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/robert-gift/32/356_2.png) [@Robert-Gift](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Robert-Gift)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/1 "2024-05-16T15:53:31Z")
> **[One Tech Tip: Protecting your car from the growing risk of keyless vehicle...](https://sentinelcolorado.com/a-town-magazine/techknow/one-tech-tip-protecting-your-car-from-the-growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_campaign=Newspack%20Newsletter%20%28789769%29)** > > 'It's relatively easy for drivers to protect themselves' ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/2 "2024-05-16T16:06:27Z")
A criminal/burglars whole job is to figure out how to break into whatever, if there is a will, there is a way… Ever heard of a brick?? lol… A lock is ONLY used to keep a honest man honest… ---
**Author:** ![old\_mopar\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6bbea6/32.png) [@old\_mopar\_guy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/old_mopar_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/3 "2024-05-16T16:23:31Z")
A youngish Italian guy is walking on 86th street in Brooklyn late one night with his girlfriend. As they’re passing a jewelery store she stops to look in the window, and says to him “honey, I’d love this nice bracelet”. He picks up a brick laying near the curb, smashes the window, and hands her the bracelet. A few stores down the street is a furrier. She stops to look in that window and says “honey, I’d love that mink jacket”. He says " whaddya think, I’m made out of bricks?". ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/4 "2024-05-16T16:26:23Z")
😆 Even though I haven’t walked on 86th Street since 1956, I remember it as a nice shopping street. My elementary school was located at the corner of 86th St & Ridge Blvd. ---
**Author:** ![old\_mopar\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6bbea6/32.png) [@old\_mopar\_guy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/old_mopar_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/5 "2024-05-16T16:30:28Z")
I went to high school at Lafayette. ---
**Author:** ![ledhed75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@ledhed75](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ledhed75)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/6 "2024-05-16T18:07:17Z")
I sure miss plain old metal keys. Not that they didn’t have their own problems…but boy, they sure seemed simpler and more reliable. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/7 "2024-05-16T18:22:44Z")
That’s about 7 miles from where we lived on 81st St, in Bay Ridge. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 6:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/8 "2024-05-16T18:25:11Z")
> [@ledhed75](#): > > I sure miss plain old metal keys. Not that they didn’t have their own problems…but boy, they sure seemed simpler and more reliable. I don’t miss having to dig in my pocket for my keys on a rainy/snowy day. Just walk up to the car while carrying my shopping goodies, pull on the door handle, and… _open sesame_. ---
**Author:** ![ledhed75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@ledhed75](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ledhed75)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/9 "2024-05-16T19:24:54Z")
Fair enough, I’ll grant you that point. I had to get another key fob made for my wife’s car a few weeks ago. Cost me $300 at the dealer because I couldn’t get any locksmiths to call me back. I’m sure a metal key copy would have been $10 or less. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/10 "2024-05-16T19:45:08Z")
> [@ledhed75](#): > > I’m sure a metal key copy would have been $10 or less. Not if it had a chip in it for the immobilizer so the car would start and run… ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/11 "2024-05-16T20:10:53Z")
> [@davesmopar](#): > > Not if it had a chip in it for the immobilizer so the car would start and run… IIRC, “copying” a key like that can cost as much as $250, and keys with those embedded chips have been pretty common for well over a decade… maybe as long as 2 decades. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 8:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/12 "2024-05-16T20:20:28Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > maybe as long as 2 decades. Closer to 4 decades… > General Motors (GM) first introduced immobilizer systems in the early 1980s. The first U.S.-made vehicle to use this technology was the 1985 Corvette, which featured GM’s Vehicle Anti-Theft System (VATS). In 1986, VATS was introduced on the Corvette, and thefts from the car dropped significantly. GM expanded VATS to the Camaro, Firebird, and Cadillac Seville in 1988. Time flies when you are having fun… lol ---
**Author:** ![It\_s-Me](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/it_s-me/32/12660_2.png) [@It\_s-Me](https://community.cartalk.com/u/It_s-Me)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/13 "2024-05-16T21:10:23Z")
> [@ledhed75](#): > > I sure miss plain old metal keys. Not that they didn’t have their own problems…but boy, they sure seemed simpler and more reliable. That worked real good for Kia and Hyundai ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/14 "2024-05-16T21:24:37Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > My elementary school was located at the corner of 86th St & Ridge What a great neighborhood to grow up! I grew up in a rural area in the western USA, cowboy & farming country, it was a good place to grow up. But around 10 years old I read the novel “It’s Like This Cat”, about a group of teenager friends living in Manhattan, and I became an instant fan. I used to enjoy long weekends in Manhattan every few months, but haven’t been back since 911. ---
**Author:** ![old\_mopar\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6bbea6/32.png) [@old\_mopar\_guy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/old_mopar_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/15 "2024-05-17T01:16:14Z")
That’s not Manhattan, it’s Brooklyn. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 1:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/16 "2024-05-17T13:06:27Z")
Tesla sells two additional key cards for $40. I usually use the Bluetooth phone app and that costs nothing to download. They also have a key fob that has buttons for unlocking the frunk, doors and trunk for $175. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 2:03pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/17 "2024-05-17T14:03:16Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > Tesla sells two additional key cards for $40 In addition to the two fobs, my vehicle also came with a key card. I’ve never used it, but I suppose that I should test it out. I do occasionally use the phone app for locking/unlocking the doors and the rear hatch. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/18 "2024-05-17T14:43:49Z")
I always use the phone app. It is more convenient than the other two methods and all I have to do is have my phone in my right pants pocket where I normally keep it. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/19 "2024-05-17T14:48:34Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > all I have to do is have my phone in my right pants pocket where I normally keep it. A few months ago, I left my phone in the car, and then I found that I was unable to lock the car via the touch-sensitive door handles. I tried _repeatedly_–without success–to lock it… until I took the phone out of the car. Apparently, it can sense whether the linked phone is inside the car, or outside. ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918/20 "2024-05-17T23:32:32Z")
> [@old\_mopar\_guy](#): > > [It’s Like This Cat plot] not Manhattan, it’s Brooklyn 60 years since I read the book, but I seem to recall at least part of the plot takes place in Manhattan. Dave (the main character) I believe lives in Manhattan, but has a friend he frequently visits in Brooklyn. > **[It's Like This, Cat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Like_This,_Cat)** > > It's Like This, Cat is a novel by American writer Emily Cheney Neville, which won the Newbery Medal for excellence in American children's literature in 1964. It's Like This, Cat was Neville's first book. > The main character of the story is Dave Mitchell, a 14-year-old boy who is growing up in mid-20th century New York City. Dave lives with his father and his asthmatic mother, whose attacks worsen when Dave and his father have their frequent arguments. Dave's refuge after a clash with his father ... hmmm … thinking you may not be referring to the book plot’s location, but that 86th & Ridge is in Brooklyn … if so, apologize for the confusion. NYC addresses can be a little confusing. Like the intersection of 1st and 1st … lol … [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/growing-risk-of-keyless-vehicle-thefts-through-relay-attacks/194918.md?page=2)