# GM Quits Europe **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 6, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858 "2017-03-06T17:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/21 "2017-03-07T16:13:47Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > Then maybe you shouldn’t be making statements as FACTS when you admit you don’t know the facts. Say what? Mike, I was talking about GM, Chrysler, Volkswagen and (1) Vauxhall cars from my experience. I knew of nobody with Asian cars at that time. _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/22 "2017-03-07T16:30:50Z")
> [@common\_sense\_answer](#): > > I was talking about GM, Chrysler, Volkswagen and (1) Vauxhall cars from my experience. I knew of nobody with Asian cars at that time. Must be an alternative facts thing. First you make this statement. > [@common\_sense\_answer](#): > > However, GM screwed up, in my opinion. It was winter and very bad weather conditions. GM had launched a little RWD car into a market of little FWD cars! It was not good in poor traction conditions (think AMC Gremlin). Then I made this TRUE statement. > [@MikeInNH](#): > > The Chevette was launched in 1976 and at that time most of the compacts were still RWD. Even Toyota vehicles back then were RWD. The Corolla changed to FWD in the early 80’s. Chevette stayed RWD. It wasn’t until 2 years later that the first small fwd vehicles were introduced to the US market with the Dodge Omni. > **[Dodge Omni](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Omni)** > > The Dodge Omni (and the nearly identical Plymouth Horizon) is a subcompact car that was produced by Chrysler Corporation from the 1978 to 1990 model years. The first Chrysler model line produced with front-wheel drive, the Omni and Horizon were also the first front-wheel drive economy cars assembled in the United States. Marketed for eleven years with very few changes, around 2,500,000 Omnis and Horizons were built with the Plymouth badged versions more popular than the Dodge branded models The... Then you make this statement saying you knew nothing about the market back in 76. [quote=“common\_sense\_answer, post:13, topic:100858”] Mike, again I was going from my experience and recollection. [/quote] To my point. There were no small fwd vehicles when the Chevette was introduced in 76. They didn’t come out til later. Your first statement insisted that it was GM who introduced a RWD vehicle into a FWD market. That is FALSE. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/23 "2017-03-07T20:55:21Z")
Early 2000s Focus was a decent car. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/24 "2017-03-07T21:00:28Z")
My sister in law taught at an American base in Germany in the early 1980s. Her father wanted a yellow Benz sedan with a diesel. She bought it for him and never mentioned that the only ones like that in Germany were taxis. The Catera received excellent reviews from the automotive press. It suffered from following the Cimmaron, a Cavalier with squishy suspension. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/25 "2017-03-07T21:04:47Z")
I consider both the Aries and Spirit midsize cars. ---
**Author:** ![Docnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Docnick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Docnick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/26 "2017-03-07T23:01:48Z")
They were fun to drive but set a record for recalls. A very flawed design and poor execution. My son did a lot of field work in his environmental review work. He often rented Ford Focus models and did not have a single good comment on them. ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/27 "2017-03-08T01:09:27Z")
That was QUITE some time ago. Those were only sold here for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/28 "2017-03-08T01:13:51Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > Her father wanted a yellow Benz sedan with a diesel. She bought it for him and never mentioned that the only ones like that in Germany were taxis. The color is officially called “sahara beige” 😏 ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/29 "2017-03-08T14:54:54Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > It suffered from following the Cimmaron, a Cavalier with squishy suspension. And a few extra bells & whistles and a grossly inflated price. The Cimmaron was one of the biggest scams in automotive history, and Cadillac’s reputation paid dearly for it. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/30 "2017-03-08T15:37:13Z")
> [@the\_same\_mountainbik](#): > > The Cimmaron was one of the biggest scams in automotive history, and Cadillac’s reputation paid dearly for it. So…it wasn’t a good idea to pay twice the price for a poorly-disguised Chevy Cavalier? 😉 I knew a woman who bought one of the early Lincoln Versailles models–which was a poorly-disguised Ford Granada–selling for twice the price of the Granada. When she decided to trade it in a few years later, she bought a Cadillac Cimarron! 😖 Like a moth to a flame, some people just seem to be attracted to the worst values in the automotive marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/31 "2017-03-08T16:10:41Z")
LOL, how very true, VDC! ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/32 "2017-03-08T16:13:06Z")
Remember the early 80’s Mustang with the Pinto 2.3L engine? That wasn’t a bright move by Ford. Muscle car and 2.3L pinto engine don’t mix. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/33 "2017-03-08T16:23:04Z")
Not sure many people would refer to a Mustang of that vintage as a “muscle” car by any stretch of the imagination. I agree, an 88hp engine was a joke but even the biggest engine available wasn’t exactly a powerhouse… ---
**Author:** ![Docnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Docnick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Docnick)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/34 "2017-03-08T17:00:39Z")
Ford called it the Mustang II. My boss at that time bought it for his wife and although she liked to drive it, she found it rather gutless. I do believe that a more powerful engine was available, a German V6 possibly. It was a sad day for such an iconic mark! ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/35 "2017-03-08T17:26:38Z")
By the '80s they were back to the Fox-based Mustang. But the 2.3 was weak. The ‘5.0’ saved the day… ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/36 "2017-03-08T17:27:47Z")
The Mustang II was the one from the 1970s, the one that was mechanically very similar to the Pinto > [@MikeInNH](#): > > Remember the early 80’s Mustang with the Pinto 2.3L engine? I believe that was actually the Fox body Mustang, which would be the next generation, the one AFTER the Mustang II However, AFAIK the Mustang II AND the succeeding Fox body Mustang used that same Pinto engine. That basic engine design was around for a very long time ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/37 "2017-03-08T17:45:38Z")
> Engines for the 1979-1982 models included the 88 hp (66 kW) 2.3 L Pinto inline-four, 109 hp (81 kW) 2.8 L Cologne V6 (made by Ford of Germany), and the 140 hp (104 kW) 302 cu in (4.9 L) Windsor V8; which was marketed as a 5.0 L engine and front fenders badged as such a 5.0L engine producing a whopping 140hp… 😴 ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/38 "2017-03-08T17:55:16Z")
> [@TwinTurbo](#): > > Not sure many people would refer to a Mustang of that vintage as a “muscle” car by any stretch of the imagination. True…that generation of Mustang wasn’t…but the name Mustang has been synonymous with muscle cars since the 60’s. ---
**Author:** ![insightful](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/insightful/32/2732_2.png) [@insightful](https://community.cartalk.com/u/insightful)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/39 "2017-03-08T19:23:43Z")
> [@TwinTurbo](#): > > a 5.0L engine producing a whopping 140hp… I had that engine in a '81 F250 4X4 with the C6 automatic. Going up to a 10,000 ft pass in Colorado, foot to the floor in 2nd gear, making 30 mph max…fun times… ;-] ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858/40 "2017-03-08T19:41:43Z")
What new car available in the US during late 1970s and early 1980s would be called a muscle car by today’s standards? They were all anemic. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/gm-quits-europe/100858.md?page=3)