I agree with @cwatkin on the use of Synthetics with the new proliferation of Turbo vehicles. I can remember a time when Turbo Charging was an Ultra Premium feature of a vehicle… If you had a Turbo Charged engine…Everyone knew it by all the “Turbo” badges all over the car. Nowadays? You would never know it…unless you knew it. The VW Jetta is one example…nary a mention of a Turbo aside from a “T” letter in the engine capacity tag on the trunk usually…and I believe the Passatt had no mention or outside clue of the Turbo lurking under the hood. I remember being totally surprised by this about 10 yrs ago… So surprised that it stuck with me till today… We used to go “Ga-Ga” over the mention of a Turbo. I think for good reason…the engine internals all need to be beefed up to handle boost… Forged Pistons, Rods, Bigger bearing journals…etc It was expensive to make a Turbo engine…now? We barely mention it.
ALL of these Turbo engines need Full Synth motor oil…and if you dont use it…you will soon be searching the internet for issues with “Motor Oil Sludging”… VW and Audi comes to mind. It is always the users fault however…as I am sure the motor oil type was listed in the Owners Manual. Its pretty much unforgiveable to use Conventional Oil in a Turbo Engine…The Heat of the Turbo is the primary factor … In normal driving the turbo is operating at Insane Rpm levels…as well as heat…and upon Shutdown of the engine…that turbo can actually increase in temp and just Bake the oil into Fudge… The inside of my 1.8T engine looks like a clean Honey Brown color…no black or sludge anywhere…The only reason for this is Full Synth and regular oil change intervals. These engines stand no chance whatsoever when someone uses Conventional Oil in a Turbo…AND ignore the change interval and wind up driving 10K between oil changes…Nope…No chance whatsoever… Just look up Oil Sludge in regard to any VW or Audi Product on the net…it is overflowing with examples…and in my opinion…its the users fault…completely. Yet VW/Audi has taken on some of the burden by replacing engines under warranty… I bet that stops very soon.
Not that this discussion will be closed out by this fellows “discussion”, but I think he covers things pretty well. Oil discussion will never die, nor will any one guy cover it all and put things to rest…but again… I think this guy covers the subject fairly well.
I have become so confused over this thread about synthetic oil vs dino oil that I am going to start searching tomorrow for a 1957-58 Studebaker Scotsman. The Scotsman has the valves in the block where the good Lord intended for valves to be located. I will use non-detergent oil because the engine doesn’t have hydraulic lifters. I will use straight 30 weight in the summer, 20W-20 in the spring and fall and 10 weight in the winter. I will have to have the Borg-Warner automatic overdrive which will allow me to get 30 mpg on the road. I’ll have a full bench seat and a truly 6 passenger vehicle. I’ll be cruising along with my musical friends with a large trunk to hold our instruments while you are debating whether to use dino or synthetic oil in your modern vehicles that don’t seat as many passengers and get about the same gas mileage.
When I bought my 2003 Crown Victoria in 2011 with about 50,000 miles on it, I saw that the previous owner used regular motor oil for all his oil changes. I know, because he had every receipt. He did it every 5,000 miles. which was about once a year. It was buring about 1/2 quart every 3,000 miles. After swiching to full synthetic for about 20,000 miles, it stopped buring oil. I did oil change at about 8,000 mile interval. I am guessing piston rings were somewhat stuck, and the synthetic oil freed them up.
I had a shock this weekend and I’m trying to work on the psychological profile of my BIL. I never knew this before but he said he never changed oil in his lawn mower in 13 years. Just added a little from time to time. I’m still feeling faint and I just simply can’t comprehend why a person would do this. Probably something like 3-400 hours of time on it but still ran. If he didn’t live 400 miles away I’d sneak over there and change it myself some night. I wish he would have said he was an _______ (I dunno, insert whatever you want) instead. I could deal with that.
Well I didn’t mean to be thoughtless and insensitive but the point was what kind of psychological profile would abuse their equipment like that? It just a joke though. I just don’t know what strategy should be used on a guy like that to get him to change the oil.
@Bing Your BIL should get a,rechargeable to battery powered mower that doesn’t require oil. Those of us regulars who post on this board appreciate machinery and take care of our equipment. However, there are a lot of good people who don’t understand equipment and are more interested in other things. Our son has great people skills and is a gifted ans creative teacher. However, he doesn’t like working on mechanical or electrical things. He bought a reel type engineless mower to cut his grass when he owned a house. He decided to go back and work on an advanced degree while teaching full time. They sold their house and moved into a two bedroom apartment. He likes not to have to mow,a yard or do household maintenance chores. He has a trusted mechanic who keeps up hia vehicles. If your BIL kept a mower running 13 years, he got his money’s worth.
When Mobil first marketed its synthetic oil the advantages seemed worth it, for my (at that time) cherished BMW 2002. As I recall, it seemed to run smoother (the wishful-thinking effect) although the mileage didn’t change noticeably.
A few months later I noticed the engine was leaking oil. A lot. As in one quart every few weeks, and plenty of kitty litter for the driveway. The cork gaskets and seals were apparently not up to holding in the lower viscosity oil. Fortunately the head gasket was made of sterner stuff, and I don’t recall having major repairs, but I did return to regular oil and I think the car needed a new valve cover and oil pan gasket. Your jeep may have more tolerant gaskets, but watch out for leaks and don’t park on your wife’s expensive carpet unless you cover it with kitty litter.
Satisficer, I tried synthetic on my older cars, for example 70’s models Pontiacs and one Datsun. In every case the oil sender would start leaking and had to be replaced. Newer cars, no leaks.
@Mike: "Do that same test in 30k more miles and you’ll get different results. It may actually show you are way past an oil change. One oil test NOW does not mean it’s valid even 30k miles later. So for me it doesn’t justify the added cost for periodic oil analysis. "
An observant owner who drives a lot of highway miles is going to spot any change in the motor operation which would make a significant change in oil longevity. Gas mileage; condition of oil when checked; engine rpm at given mph on flat ground with no strong winds; something will change if something goes wrong.
However, I have tried to say many times one doesn’t send in an oil sample all the time just to see if the oil is good. It’s cheaper to just buy a new filter and another 5 quart container of EP and be done with it.
The lab report tells you all about what is happening in your motor. If there is cam wear or valve train wear or blow-by or coolant invasion or bad rings or bearing wear. Blackstone can tell you by the oil analysis. And, that does justify added cost for periodic oil analysis.
Sometimes in their free e-mail newsletter Blackstone will include a real oil analysis and challenge the readers to tell what has gone wrong in the motor, sort of like the Car Talk puzzles.
I don’t subscribe to the oil analysis theory. If the engine’s running good and not using excess oil or using other fluids that it shouldn’t be, than I’m not going to do anything in response to an oil analysis other than say “that’s nice” and go through my day unaffected. If the engine isn’t running properly or exhibiting any of the other aforementioned symptoms, I’ll just maintain it well, not abuse it, and go on as normal.
Oil analysis may be useful in diagnosing a problem, although I cannot think of one that can’t be diagnosed using other methods, but to do an oil analysis on a routine basis has no value to me. Using one to try to determine how often you should change the oil is only useful for trying to stretch oil changes as far as possible, and I wouldn’t do that anyway. To me the goal is to get as many miles out of the engine as possible, not to get as many miles out of the oil as possible.
Just my perspective. If you prefer to get your oil analyzed, go for it. But IMHO if you’re not doing anything with the data, the money can be better used by a charity.
Just for the fun of it I paid my $28 for an analysis of my G6. It came out pretty much everything below the wear that would be expected. I did have a little problem understanding all the results though. Maybe if I were an engineer and I’d know what the various metals were from, it would make more sense. But they didn’t point out no or low ring wear, bearing wear, rod wear, etc. It did say no evidence of water etc. and everything was fine though.
I have seen mowers so neglected and yet they still run. I have also seen some that seem to run fine on old tar like oil that come apart within a few minutes of changing the oil to what the factory calls for. I talked to a mower mechanic about this and he said this is common with him too. I guess the tar cushions the worn bearings, etc. and when good oil is put in, it is now way too thin to do the job and the engine throws a rod.
If I get ahold of something like this, I change the oil. I then run it about a mowing or so and see if it holds together. Usually the ones that are too far gone throw a rod in like 2 minutes of use. The ones that hold together get another oil change after the one full use.
As for oil analysis, it is probably not a huge issue on a daily driver where the oil is changed according to the manual. For those pushing their cars to the limit for racing and such, this is probably not a bad idea. You can figure out if the oil is doing its job and what oil works best in your engine.
I use synthetic now because my car requires it but used dino oil in everything that didn’t. There is no sense in sending a car to the junkyard because of rust with an engine that has only 150,000 miles on it that is good for another 200,000 because I used synthetic.