Florida sued for ticketing motorists who warn others of speed traps

Yeah, police don’t like it when you know your rights. (WARNING, SALTY LANGUAGE)

Flashing headlights to warn others of a cop checking speeds is no different than doing the same thing verbally via CB radio. The only difference is that the cops could not nearly as easily catch what you are saying on your CB radio. Way back before CB radio, a motorist could warn another of a radar cop with index and middle finger in a “V” shape, not for Victory and not a peace sign but to indicate a radio antenna; radar to be exact. I seriously doubt that a ticket for doing that would stick. A ticket for flashing headlights is simply harassing the public and cops should not do that to avoid even more cop resentment than there already is.

I have heard it said that a typical highway cop does not resent CB radio but looks at it as something that increases his sphere of influence resulting in more people obeying the speed limit. Flashing headlights should accomplish the same thing.

Some states years ago would give you a ticket if you had a radar detector. If you fought it…they’d throw it out…It was designed to hassle you into NOT using a detector or to pay a fine for the right to.

My daughter had a traffic ticket a couple of years ago for running a stop light…She fought it because she in no way ran the light…Goes to court at 8am (as date and time given to her when she said she would plead not-guilty). After 3 hours they gather everyone who decided NOT to plead guilty and informed them that they would have to wait until 4pm for their case to be heard…My daughter was home from college for the summer, so she waited…but MOST couldn’t. The system is designed to FORCE you to plead guilty…

That’s crazy! The goal should be to reduce speeds no matter how it’s done, not how many tickets you can write. Here the Police even say when the DWI checkpoints will be set up. (but not where) Again the goal being to reduce DWI’s…not make arrests.

That’s crazy! The goal should be to reduce speeds no matter how it’s done, not how many tickets you can write.

Many towns/states rely on how many tickets they give out for revenue. Is it right…NO…but it’s a fact.

Wha Who?: “The only difference is that the cops could not nearly as easily catch what you are saying on your CB radio.”

I’ve heard stories, about cops giving the “all clear” on the CB radio and then reaping the benefits. I suspect that’s how I got ticketed once in Louisiana. I don’t bother with the CB anymore.

My thoughts:

Its rather sad that someone warning another of a police car out for traffic violators could be ticketed, but at the same time the police publicize where they’ll be looking for drunk drivers.

Personally, I’d see this fine as a violation of first amendment rights. I also think its stupid to warn others. There are too many inattentive and dangerous drivers, and perhaps, just perhaps, if they get a ticket, they’ll pay attention and things will be safer.

At the same time, I don’t buy the idea that cops are out simply to generate revenues via tickets to make up for lost revenue. Ohio has seen a 13% drop in tickets over the past 4 years - that isn’t indicative of trying to make up revenue. One locality here has been accused time and again of setting speed traps to collect $$$. The problem with that theory is that the town isn’t setting speed traps by the classic definition (setting an artificially low speed limit and collecting fines). The speed limit on the highway through the town and for about 20 miles south and about 7 miles north is all 55 mph. This town is one of the few areas that actually enforces it. The local paper’s analysis shows that the ticket revenues are just enough to pay the operating costs of the traffic court and for the time of the officers patrolling the highway. I can’t blame them for enforcing a speed limit that no one else wants to - particularly when speeding vehicles on this stretch of highway have been known to fly off the road and land ON (elevated highway) neighboring homes.

At the same time, I don’t buy the idea that cops are out simply to generate revenues via tickets to make up for lost revenue.

Maybe not where you live…But there are towns in NH and MA where the revenue generated from tickets is in the towns budget. The police are EXPECTED to reach that budget every year. It’s not that the cops personally are out to generate revenue…they are told to because it’s part of the towns budget. And if the police don’t meet their budget commitments then they may see a reduction in their numbers.

I’m not sure if the 1st amendment gives you the right to aid and abet criminal behavior. If you ever go to trial for perjury or fraud, try using the 1st amendment for a defense and let us know how it works out.

The 1st amendment means you can “call the emporer naked” without being charged with treason.

But we are not a nation of secret police either.

Reducing the police force will only hamper their response time for other, possibly major, criminal activity. If there’s a shooting or robbery going on, and they only have 1 or 2 officers for that area, and they’re both at opposite ends of the county/jurisdiction, then you’ve got some problems there.

Not to mention that reducing the force also reduces the chances of them actually giving tickets out, too. If they rely on the tickets, then reducing the number they’re actually capable of giving out is reduced as well.

“Some states years ago would give you a ticket if you had a radar detector. If you fought it…they’d throw it out.”

It is still illegal in Virginia to possess a radar or laser detector. The police can even seize it, but only as evidence in your court case. It will be returned after they throw the book at you.

Quote from Whitey: “I’ve heard stories, about cops giving the “all clear” on the CB radio and then reaping the benefits. I suspect that’s how I got ticketed once in Louisiana. I don’t bother with the CB anymore.” Unquote

Mr. Whitey, taking information from the CB radio is similar to taking it from the Internet; with a grain of salt of course. In the presence of truckers, a lie perpetrated by a highway cop giving an “all clear” would not likely last long. If there were no truckers, then you might have reason to be suspicious and not be taken in. What you have heard might not be impossible but is also unlikely and therefore not a basis for a final decision. Your ticket may have been a lesson to help pull you out of a vulnerable thought process that you may have possessed at the time.

jtsanders " “Some states years ago would give you a ticket if you had a radar detector. If you fought it…they’d throw it out.”

It is still illegal in Virginia to possess a radar or laser detector. The police can even seize it, but only as evidence in your court case. It will be returned after they throw the book at you. "

I have never understood the logic of this. Why make radar detectors illegal when you can use them against speeders by putting a radar false alarmer behind every sign and billboard? They could have those radar detectors crying wolf so much that speeder would shut them off just for the peace and quiet.
Also, no one has yet invented a radar detector that can detect a stopwatch timing a car between two known landmarks from an airplane. Why not exploit this?

B.L.E. regarding your last question, that’s simple economics. One officer, one cruiser and a speed measuring device compared to two police officers, a pilot, a plane and a cruiser.

Where I have seen aerial monitoring they maximize the effect by having 6 or so cruisers lined up on the expressway entrance ramp. They take turns pulling over the speeders. But that’s more of a short term, big effort to send a message kind of thing than a routine method since it costs so much to do.

“Also, no one has yet invented a radar detector that can detect a stopwatch timing a car between two known landmarks from an airplane. Why not exploit this?”

Aerial surveillance is expensive compared to using police cruisers alone. I’m sure that the state police does use them, but they would need a good reason, like several severe accidents, to use this method with any regularity. Or they would have to want the money badly. In that case, maybe they need to line up 6 cruisers on several ramps going one direction, then switch sides as the plane or helicopter moves back up the highway.

A stopwatch in an airplane isn’t the only passive form of speed measurment that doesn’t set off radar detectors. What ever became of VASCAR? Also, in theory at least, is should be possible to make a video camera that measures how fast the autofocus has to change in order to keep the license plate in sharp focus or use a two camera triagulation to measure speed passively.

“What ever became of VASCAR?”

It was proven in court that it was not accurate. The reaction time of the operator varied too greatly.

The same operator reaction time would apply to a stopwatch from an airplane. “Accurate” is a relative thing and a clocking over two landmarks a mile apart will give a much more accurate speed than a clocking over two landmarks that are only 100 yards apart.
Also, I hear that the reason most traffic violations are treated as a civil case and not a criminal case is because in a civil trial, the standard of proof is “preponderence of evidence” instead of “beyond all reasonable doubt”.
In other words, 5 out of 6 jurors have to agree to the verdict instead of a unaminous jury.

Wha Who?: “In the presence of truckers, a lie perpetrated by a highway cop giving an ‘all clear’ would not likely last long.”

Truckers don’t use their CB radios like they did back in the day when they first became popular (1970s?). Most truckers leave their radios off and only turn them on when traffic backs up or while waiting for a load at a warehouse. The CB airwaves have become polluted with hate and ignorance, leaving your CB radio on for more than 30 minutes will make you feel like the whole human race has devolved.

According to this book http://www.amazon.com/Speeders-Guide-Avoiding-Tickets/dp/B003H4RDAQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315849500&sr=8-1 using air surveillance to catch speeders is cost prohibitively expensive, dangerous, and ineffective.