Y’know, the more I think about it, the more I realize how common aluminum truck bodies already are. Very, very common on everything from fluid carriers to cargo carriers. I suppose the pickup truck is the only category left where aluminum isn’t already common.
And then there’re RVs. Airstream goes way back.
In thinking about it, it’s actually so common on over the road vehicles that I’m surprised it took this long for it to get into pickup trucks.
Aluminum has been more common then you think and for a long, long time. You know, it’s not like aluminum is some rare metal. It’s eight percent of the earths crust and the most abundant metal on earth. It’s really matter of man hours and special techniques needed to work with it. GM thought they could make an aluminum alloy motor without doing anything special to the cylinder. But now, nearly everyone has an aluminum alloy motor. But the pistons don’t ride up and down on an uncoated or unlined cylinder. These techniques just required time. Eventually automakers will learn how to make aluminum alloy less rust resistant so they can then use them in car bodies. ;=( Steel has always been the metal of choice in cars because it’s so easy to work with and it has built in long term profit generation…it rusts.
@MarkM Don’t hold your breath. If they don’t make the aluminum decay in ten years, they will engineer it to fatigue and break in that time. Automakers have no interest in making cars that last, too long.
Aluminum has merit. CF, OTOH…delamination, BAD galvanic corrosion, fatigue failures in sub-decade timeframes, no plastic deformation of parts in a crash, $$$$$ and then some $…whole lot not to like in a sub $300k vehicle meant to log >80 kmi!
(Who’d buy a truck that cant be driven on gravel OR in the presence of road salt??)
The Boeing 787 is 50% composites, 20% aluminum, 15% titanium, 10% steel, and 5% other stuff (by weight).
The 787 fuselage and wings are mainly carbon fiber. Boeing had enough experience with the material from military aircraft that they took the plunge. Given how far behind schedule it ended up I’m not sure how they feel about that decision now, but the eventual changeover was inevitable. The newest version of the 777 has wings that are mostly carbon fiber. The weight savings (and resulting fuel savings) are more compelling for aircraft than land vehicles, where weight is less important than drag. That automakers are starting to use large amounts of aluminum in mainstream models suggests the cost difference has become modest. And that they’re chasing even modest mpg gains.
@MJ75, good grief they have been making class 8 trucks out of Aluminum forever,frames too,(Paccar trucks) Land Rovers,Grumman Vans,Trailers(some of the trucks had a wooden floor) its like Dag said the material has to get dumbed down first,Aluminum has so much embedded energy in its manufacture initially,strength is not really the issue(some Duraluminum has tensile strength in the neighborhood of 70000 psi,I’ve been told) anyrate Al takes only 1/20 the energy to reprocess as opposed to initial refining(car batteries and aluminum are among the most highly recycled materials % wise) not to worry though, the steel industry will rise to the challenge(remember the thread I attempted to start one time?) and who knows you may even see a magnesium car one day,one of the worst problems with light metals are thier reactivity(and high heat of combustion in an oxygen rich enviroment) the corrosion resistance of Al is a myth ,Hg will react with Al to produce a worthless red powder,O2 readily combines with Al forming a tough oxide layer almost instantly(self painting so to speak,thats what gives it ,its supposed corrosion resistance,any metal on that end of the “electromotive series” is highly reactive and will corrode easily( actually makes a good chemical battery or sacrifical anode) but rest assured its on the way and the economics are built in-Kevin
Given how far behind schedule it ended up I'm not sure how they feel about that decision now, but the eventual changeover was inevitable.
They had enough orders to keep Boeing going for the next 50 years. Some were canceled…but there are plenty of orders remaining.
I also think that the early adopters of the 787 were willing to accept delays given the fuel they save. Airlines are sophisticated buyers (or lessees) and understood that the would likely be delays and possible problems with the first units. And the 787s were replacing existing assets. Few, if any, customers were stranded when the 787s went off line to repair the batteries.
As a former sailboat dealer and owner of dozens of different sailboats and motor boats over the years, you get to realize the different quality used by manufactures of parts made from both aluminum alloy and stainless steel. Regular extruded plastics, itself a composite as come a long way too. In the not too distant future, I see it being used in parts for cars you wouldn’t believe could be. Like alloy parts, some are good and some are crap. It’s the engineering that has to catch up to it’s use to kept long term profitability.
That is the huge disadvantage of an electric car. Imagine just for a moment, a 4 passenger EV made solely out of aluminum alloy, strong composite, stainless steel and with a battery you could charge in 20 minutes and go 250 miles and sold for less then $20k and still make a good profit at sales. Imho, it’s here now. What would that do to an automotive industry whose existence depends upon repace parts and service ?
You will have to design a lot of parts that fail on fatigue alone. That takes time.
“That is the huge disadvantage of an electric car. Imagine just for a moment, a 4 passenger EV made solely out of aluminum alloy, strong composite, stainless steel and with a battery you could charge in 20 minutes and go 250 miles and sold for less then $20k and still make a good profit at sales. Imho, it’s here now”
Where?
2.7L motor? does not use much fuel at stoplight. maybe it has auto start/stop too?
One concern I would have is for handling and ride quality. Unless they come up with some type of active suspension to compensate. In my prior experience, trucks have to have suspensions that can handle the full load under rough road conditions. When they’re empty, they can ride like lumber wagons. Now take a significant amount of the base weight away and make that disparity even more pronounced…
Again, talking about a working truck, not a pickemup someone drives like a car.
@kmccune: what?
I said Al has merit. I said Carbon Fiber was a silly pipe dream. Where did I say anything disparaging about Al (other than saying 6000-series wasn’t necessarily any stronger per weight than a real good steel alloy?)
dagosa made me think about the analogy in furniture over the years. I recall each time they came out with a new (i.e. cheaper) material, the holdouts would brag about their superior construction materials:
Made with solid oak!
Made with solid pine!
Made with real wood!
I can see it now in cars:
Made with genuine steel!
Made with solid aluminum!
Made with real metal!
"Where?"
Right behind you…didn’t stretch it out but I feel the technology is here NOW. A committment to make these cars and mass produce them would bring the price down. Only the auto companies have the capability to mass produce cars in a way that reduced unit costs. They CAN’t do it and survive. They make too much money in parts and service of ICE cars and employ too many people. The economy demands we stay with ICE cars for as long as possible. They do the same thing with their their approach to rust prevention. They have no intention in making a rust free car ! They do the minimal amount. Mandates on safety and emmissions that make components last much longer had a lot to do with the lack of turnover that GM profited by for years. Everyone did well. When cars began lasting long, they competed more in the same makets. But, longevity in cars in general and loss of sales to other compannies had a big effect on GM and Chrysler.
@MJ ,wasnt really chastising you,Al has a few bad properties especially at times the stiffness and lack of elasticity,(guess thats way you dont see Al springs) and on the big trucks {class 8 or so} frame cracking was a problem,every material basically has merit-but on a profit sense,steel reigns supreme-Kevin
Fortunately we won’t be seeing this material in cars any time soon:
I think Ford knows it’s buyers and will reinforce the trunk bed as needed to handle heavy loads. Less need for rust protection could be a real advantage where winter roads are frequently salted. Kudo’s to Ford for stepping outside the box and taking a risk. I’d bet this one will be a winner!
I work on those class 8 trucks, and they use aluminum and fiberglass extensively
Nobody in their right mind would call them sissy trucks
Meanjoe, as Mark pointed out, carbon fiber is already making its way I to commercial aircraft. Every pound counts in an aircraft, and it was inevitable.
Aluminum has been used in cars for almost a century. Commonly in high end cars like Astons, Porches, and Lotus. And they still use it, although their “flagship” vehicles are all going to CF.
But Ford is the first I’ve hear of to use it in the bodies and beds of pickup trucks. I’ll be interested in seeing how readily accepted it is.