European Fuel Efficiency

I disagree. The government shouldn’t have any say in what I choose to drive. Why should the guy who drives a V10 F-350 have to pay more than the guy who drives a Prius? The guy who has the F-350 already pays more in fuel taxes since he uses more fuel. While there is nothing wrong with giving tax breaks for those who buy econoboxes, there shouldn’t be extra taxation for those who choose not to drive small cars.

European countries put high taxes on fuel and have a sliding horsepower license fee to encourage drivers to buy small cars. The 2 main reasons for this are the narrow streets and roads, and the import bill for oil, since most countries have no oil or are net importers. Norway happens to be a major exporter.

Agree that the resultant revenue helps pay for public health care and free university education, public transit, etc. but that is not the main purpose.

The US had an oil and oil product import bill of about $700 Billion/yr when oil peaked this summer, causing enormous trade deficits in addition to all the imports from China. This is an unsustainable situation, as we all know. This is the kind of thing European countries and Japan are trying to avoid. The US still acts as if it was self-sufficient in oil and gas.

A third reason to cut back on fossil fuel use is environmental to combat global warming.

That C3 gets great mileage because it’s a small turbodiesel. It’s no NHTSA that keeps them out, it’s the EPA. Diesel pollution is something Europe has decided it can live with, for some reason.

FoDaddy; no one is against anybody owning a gas thirsty vehicle; even in France you can own one. The annual road tax on a V8 full size car is about $2200, combine that with $7/gallon gas and the result is few of the vehicles on the road. They don’t even build V8 cars in France!

Yet on my last trip to Paris there was a V8 Range Rover parked near the Lido night club on the Champs Elysee. You get a ticket in Paris for driving off the pavement!

So, to each his own; you are entitled to buy and drive what you want; for the sake of saving the economy and the environment, only a few people should be able to afford thirsty vehicles, excluding work trucks.

I am amazed at how many people here are basically demanding a totalitarian government, instead of the American way, which is to let the market figure things out.

The minute you guys start forcing others to change how they think, others start forcing you to change how you think.

And, there is no global warming. Don’t get out much, huh?

One might also consider high taxes on gas a “homeland security” tax. By using gas in Europe you (except if you are in Norway) make your country dependent on foreign oil. We all know where that can leads. So you should pay for the results of the dependency (more measures to keep your country safe). The less fuel you consume the safer you make your country, so you should be rewarded tax/wise.

Why should the privileged few only be able to drive thirsty vehicles? Seems to me that the government in France is trying to dictate what the citizens drive.

I’ve yet to see any diesel cars emitting black smoke from their tailpipes. And besides, the engine in those semis are probably larger and heavier than most passenger vehicles

Go tell the polar bears. Oh wait, they drowned.

If your upwind neighbor decided to start a business burning old tires in his back yard, I think you would be looking to Government for redress.

No one is saying you shouldn’t be able to drive a thirsty vehicle. It should just cost you much more to do so. Fuel prices should be much higher to better reflect their true economic cost. Pumping it out of the ground, refining, and distributing are just the beginning of the story. After you burn it in your thirsty vehicle, we all have to deal with the market & environmental effects.

No, we haven’t decided that we can live with that kind of pollution. That?s why every new diesel vehicle sold - also big rigs are equipped with catalyc converters and “partikel filters” (sp), it?s required by law within EU and has been so for some years so you won’t see any kind of smoke as you did years ago unless the vehicle has not been maintained properly.

in england we are taxed on everythng! in fact weve had enough!i live in manchester u.k. and petrol costs ?4 a gallon,thats $6 to you. diesel is ?5,about $7.50.we have just voted a big no to congestion charging,because we pay enough taxes already!!!income tax starts at 20 percent,rising to 40 percent for people who earn more than ?40,000 a year.then we have vat(value added tax) on everything at 15 percent.we get “free” healthcare such as doctors,hospitals etc…,but have to pay for dentists,eye tests,medicines etc…and when youre 65 you get a massive pension…?100 pounds a week!!!(enough to buy food just!)our government is so generous…NOT!!and as to fuel efficiency, i drive a ford puma( a small coupe) 1.6 litre,with 102 bhp,and i get 29 mpg in town,and up to 50 mpg on the motorway if i cruise at 60 mph, top speed is 120mph so thats not too bad!

here in england,the fiesta 1.4 turbo diesel gets 48 mpg in town and 70 mpg on the motorway!and will do 100mph…just!

Give them time, they’ll be taxing you on the amount of air you breathe. So don’t go running anywhere or you’ll be paying more tax than those that walk. :stuck_out_tongue:

I wouldn’t expect the government to handle any disputes with my neighbor, luckily I live on a 5 acre lot, so whatever my neighbor is doing doesn’t really impact me. And even if it did, I’m on good enough terms with my neighbor that we could probably work things out without having to get any government agency involved.

Like I stated before, it already does cost the guy with the truck more to drive around that it does the guy in the econobox, since he pays more in fuel costs and therefore already pays more tax built into the fuel.

Everyone’s ecological beliefs are personal decisions. The government should not have the ability to deem what is considered “green” and what is not. If they want to give incentives for people to buy whatever they consider “green” that’s fine. But there should not be any fines levied against people who do not wish to drive “green” vehicles.

If the public demands high-mpg,smaller cars then the car companies will build them.

Didn’t Top Gear drive to the North Pole not long ago? They managed to not fall through the ice, and the polar bears they encountered seemed to be doing ok.

Real life examples to help inject reality check: Here in Kentucky, I continue to drive a 1984 VW Diesel Jetta; 52 hp engine. honestly averages 47 mpg (better than Toyota Prius). (had a tail wind up through Alabama once, got 62 mpg!) It doesn’t matter if I have 4 ‘large’ Americans in the car, or just myself, the fuel mileage stays the same. Small? yes, but more fun to drive than my Chrysler minivan. Cost me less than $2000; and that includes going through the running gear to make is safe and reliable. Does it have airbags, or antilock brakes, or airconditioning? No. But it could. America CAN make cars like this, but supply and demand and too much government regulation are the issue. The regulation comes from too many lawsuits tying the hands of people who want to get creative (look what lawsuits did to the private airplane industry; same thing is slowly happening to the US car industry). VW doesn’t even seem to want to sell their econo cars over here; because they CAN’T sell them. aside; We (general public, not me) want large vehicles w/ horsepower and comfort. When the price of gas/oil becomes particularly draconian, then the vehicles will become smaller. But, with any luck, I’ll still have my VW and will be laughing all the way to the bank (if any bank has survived that is…) Anyway, particulates in the air? all ‘new’ diesels are completely 0 emission (mine isn’t, but I don’t care, I’m thinking the soot it throws off is minute compared to many other problems in the world… for example, people who cut their catalytic converters off to sell for 200$) side note: Toyota Prius w/ a diesel/electric hybrid… NOW we’re talking economy! And finally, (grew up in Alaska and still have relatives there; I’ll call myself an expert) Polar Bears aren’t drowning, just having harder times getting out to the ice floes. They swim like, or better than, fish. But, they are a bear; and are very smart, and adaptable, (Heck, they’re found in the dumps all along the north coast of Alaska, and Canada, scavenging our garbage; just like all bears; except meaner) so, even if the ice cap melts, Polar Bears will survive. Maybe longer than us; and certainly longer than fossil fuels.

Great car! We used to have one of those when I grew up.

One reality check addition to put things in perspective compared to Europe. In Germany your 1984 Diesel (if it would not have rusted away by now) would cost $1500 per year in registration renewal (pollution penalty) and would not be allowed in quite a few urban areas because of “fine particulate matter” pollution. But that’s the case Diesel or not.

I grew up in Iowa driving vehicles with V8 engines in the 1980s (F150, and a 1960 Cadillac hearse). But since the early 1990s I have been living in Germany. I am not an economics or physics expert, but I would say that “European” cars get better gas mileage than “American” cars because the engines are smaller. There are no European secrets or conspiracies to getting high mileage. Here in Germany, it makes economic sense to drive a diesel if one drives approx. more than 15k to 20k KM per year (9-12k miles). The calculation is complicated due to auto taxes, insurance, cost of vehicle, spread in price between gasoline and diesel. In my opinion, most “luxury” cars in Germany, not sports cars, have diesel engines. The company I work for has several thousand company cars and most of them are diesels. So, there has been a lot of development in Germany for diesel engines and recently particle filters. Many “myths” about diesels have been subsided. But many European cars exported to the US are usually “fully loaded” and have big gasoline engines. This is probably a combination of car quotas and the American perception that big gasoline engines as opposed to small diesel engines is better. My car is a 2002 Audi A6 with a 2.5 liter diesel V6 engine and a manual transmission. This engine is considered large by German standards. I could not imagine buying an automatic transmission here. I often drive around 100mph and if traffic allows up to 130mph. My winter tires are rated to 131mph. My car comfortably accelerates nicely uphill which makes passing easy. This is a positive feature of diesels: more torque than gasoline. In Germany we quote usage as liters per 100km. My car uses about 7l/100km which equates to about 30mpg. My engine may sound small by American standards but what would I do with a larger engine? Go faster? My wife’s fairly new Golf V has a 1.6l engine which also goes comfortably at 100mph, but granted, with a gasoline engine it does not have the torque like my car. Her car even gets slightly worse mileage than my much heavier A6. When comparing mileage of cars, one must take the age of the car into consideration. Newer cars have many more safety features and creature comforts than older cars, such as airbags, extra steel for strength, air conditioners etc. which make for heavier cars. This is especially noticeable with Golfs here in Germany. My wife’s Golf is probably 1000lbs heavier than Golfs from 10 years ago. And a heavier car uses more fuel than a lighter car. As for cost of fuel, each country has its own tax regulations. In Germany, taxes make up about 2/3 the cost of the fuel which is fixed, not a percentage. Therefore, if the world price of oil goes down, the price of one liter does not change so dramatically. I do not mind the high price of fuel because the government is trying to regulate the number of cars on the road. I would probably prefer to have the price for diesel higher, which would induce shipping companies to use more rail instead of trucks. In Germany, factories’ inventory are in trucks on the road. There is another significant cultural difference between the US and Europe with cars. I am under the impression that many Americans feel that a large car or SUV offers better safety than smaller cars, especially in accidents. I do not hear this argument in Germany. Big cars and SUVs are expensive to own, difficult to park, and impractical. Car commercials demonstrating safety would show a car maneuvering around an obstacle. Agility, handling, and very good brakes are important here for safety, not the amount of steel to “win” in an accident. These are just some of my perceptions of comparing cars in the US and Germany.

Any car can do 100 MPH. How long does it take to get up to highway speeds? About 12 seconds or so. My car will be going well over 100 MPH in the time it takes that shoebox on wheels to get up to crusing speed.