The issues it had were: A bad EGR valve that needed to be replaced/cleaned. The fuel sending unit is bad. And the ECBM is causing the ABS light to be on.
Those are any and all of the issues I’m aware of. Also, it hasn’t had an “out of or extremely low on oil” experience to the best of my knowledge.
Let me briefly clarify - I personally drove about 15 miles with the oil light flickering. I assumed it was flickering before I got in possession of it.
As for removing the battery, NO electronics were coming on when I turned the key after it “died” on me. No lights, no sounds, my automatic windows and doors weren’t responding. Which led me to believe perhaps my alternator had failed, caused my battery to drain, and subsequently my car to die. Thereby rendering my electronics useless. My logic led me to think if the battery were bad, then perhaps my alternator had caused it.
I actually knew what the other lights on the dash were for. I knew why the ABS light was illuminated (EBCM was bad), and why the CEL was lit (my fuel sending unit needed to be replaced).
I supposed when I get down to it, you’re absolutely right, and despite only ignoring the oil light for a few miles, I still ignored it. I take responsibility for that.
And honestly, I would have checked the oil level after it had been changed. Actually, I would have changed it myself, as it’s what I’ve done for the past several years. But I wasn’t in possession of the car when the oil was changed by the shop.
EGR, ABS issues, etc. would not have anything to do with the engine problem so that’s weeded out.
The vehicle HAS had an out of oil experience. You added 5 quarts so that’s about as low as it can get. When the oil light is on the engine must be stopped immediately, even if it means leaving the car on the side of the road and hitchhiking home.
What’s unknown is if the engine had a prior out of oil experience; say before the oil change or directly afterwards.
It would still help to know the tiny details behind this problem. Who’s to say that when your GF took the car into this facility the oil light was not flickering then due to the engine being extremely low on oil from not having been checked. There are posts on this board all the time about trashed engines caused by this very thing.
Changing the oil at that point is pretty much an exercise in futility and and if the GF was given bad news she might have decided it’s time to bail on that car and get a new one followed by dumping the old one. (I know, it’s crass to think the GF would unload a junker on a BF. Don’t get mad at me because I’m only pointing out a theoretical here.)
The reason why I didn’t immediately think engine seizure is because the oil had JUST been changed, and I trusted they had done it correctly. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have disregarded the oil light like I did. But you’re right, that’s exactly why I thought those things could have been the problem instead of the engine itself.
She had been thinking about getting a new car for a while. I have been without a car for several months now after the breaks failed on my 4Runner. The way I saw it, even a vehicle that needed work is better than no vehicle at all. And the things that needed work were all things I was going to put the time, effort, energy, and money in to fix. I don’t think she knew it was problematic… at least to the degree it ended up being. (at least, I certainly HOPE not! And she seems to feel VERY remorseful about the whole situation)
She didn’t talk me into taking over the payments. It was cheap ($750) and since I have no credit (not bad, but literally zero credit), I can’t buy something decent without putting 2500-3500 down. So she gets a new car, I get something I can get to and from work in, its a win-win.
In actuality, I talked her into letting me take over the payments instead of her selling it to CarMax who were going to give her $1000 for it. Turns out that probably was the best time for me to be persuasive!
Right, I understand that it’s had one now. But I don’t know about one prior to this debacle. Like I said, at least to the best of my knowledge.
I’m fairly confident, but not certain, that the oil light was NOT on or flickering before she took it in to have it looked at.
And I’m not mad at all, I understand (to a degree) how people usually function. my reply to your previous post will hopefully have some of the answers you’re looking for as far as a bit more detail behind the situation.
If I read this right, your GF drove it for 35 miles with the oil light on before giving it to you, and you drove it for 15 more. Please make sure your GF knows which idiot lights can be ignored and which must not be on her brand new car.
If the oil plug is leaking then you probably had oil in the car at least for a little while, unless they stripped the plug AND forgot to fill it (the white oil filter). The couple of times I used a quick lube place and sat in the car, someone reached in through the driver’s window and turned the key to verify that the oil pressure light was off, before allowing me to drive away. So the oil light may have been off at first and came on a few minutes/miles after your GF drove away. The engine may have been all but dead before you started your 15 miles worth.
I think the morally correct and legally correct resolution is for your girlfriend, who is the legal owner and drove it away from the shop, to assume the majority of the financial responsibility. The shop has some liability, though. How about you pay for the engine but the shop installs it for free labor?
UPDATE - OP here, After getting off the phone with the manager of the shop, the following is what he told me.
This leads me to believe it was indeed overtightened. This isn’t something I could have confirmed before, because I didn’t want to touch the drain plug. Be he said it was the first thing he checked and that it was tight. I noticed yesterday when I looked at the car that it was dripping from the drain plug. Over 48 hours, oil had dripped from the drain plug all the way to the rear axle under the car. It might not have started as a slow leak, but after that much oil has leaked out, that’s what it’s become.
And he was clear in stating that he wants to sell me one, not give me one.
I spoke to her and she said he told her it was “low” on oil, not without it all together. Also, she does not have the invoice anymore.
So that’s the currently situation. Thoughts? Questions? Advice?
If your GF lost the invoice does the shop have a carbon copy? (They could handwrite anything they wanted to on a fresh copy.)
If she literally had “no” oil when she came in, I do not believe the shop would have let her go without making a bigger fuss over it, such as suggesting various tests or remedies to find a leak. So I don’t believe the shop on this point. But if you end up in small claims court it will be her word against theirs, plus whatever documents you each have.
The vehicle would never have run 50 miles with no oil in the crankcase. It would seem very obvious to most adult drivers that a warning light and engine noises would indicate serious impending problems. But if the engine failed within 50 miles of being ‘professionally’ serviced due to incompetence or neglect the shop should be responsible for the damage.
In your original post, you said you “took over payments” on her 2000 Isuzu Rodeo. However, a subsequent post seems to indicate you agreed to purchase the vehicle from her for $750. If the latter is the case, I would say junk the car or maybe part it out. Treat this situation as a learning experience.
OK, there’s been a lot of responses and it seems to now be in battle phase with the shop. Have them show you the invoice showing that the mechanic told the GF the truck had no oil…with her signature after work was complete.
Now, three things I’ve noticed:
Lessons learned, I hope: don’t continue to drive a vehicle with warning lights on or flickering. Investigate. Even if a car “will keep running” with the check engine light, get that needed work done ASAP; not tomorrow, but ASAP. Driving with check engine/service engine lights can mean further repairs down the road over and above the initial problem.
Keep receipts for almost all maintenance (except maybe wiper blades).
I just came across this post and wanted to add a couple things to consider. Regarding the pool of oil from the car sitting after the engine seizure, the leak could, and probably is, coming from somewhere other than the drain plug. When the engine seized, it likely caused other damages to the block or seals, resulting in an oil leak. This should have been caught by the shop, but if it’s a quick service oil change center, they may not have the knowledge to look for this. Second, it is possible, though unlikely, for the vehicle to have been driven 50 miles with no oil in the crankcase. The residual oil could be enough to generate enough pressure to make the oil light flicker rather than glow steadily. For future reference, OP, a flickering oil light will often indicate a more problematic situation than a steadily glowing one. Neither is good and either need to be investigated immediately, but a bad sensor will cause the light to glow steadily. A flickering light indicates marginal oil pressure and/or very low/cavitated oil. This spells a slow and painful death for your engine.
Precision Tune is a chain full service center similar to Tires Plus or Midas, this isn’t just a quick-lube. These guys should have caught this.
What state are you in if you don’t mind me asking? Different states have different laws concerning auto shops and their customers. Before buying an engine or scrapping the car I would suggest getting a second opinion. If another shop can show you that Ptune damaged your car and put it in writing you will have a better leg to stand on. Ptune’s all over the country are franchises and each individually owned. Ptune is not just a lube shop. They do full auto repairs. You may end up coming out of pocket for that second opinion but if they can prove that Ptune was at fault then you will have a better leg to stand on. You can also call their customer service line toll free at 800-438-8863 and ask them for more advice.
All pilots are told that whatever happens to an airplane, its their fault for not checking the oil, the fuel level in the wing tanks, tire pressure, water contamination in the fuel etc…
The same goes for professional drivers.
My 1975 Civic had the fuel pump coupled to the oil pressure sensor.
When the oil light was on the fuel pump stopped.
Unfortunately you could probably drive some distance before the carburetor bowl emptied out.
However, I never tried to see how that worked out.
Ah, I see… Well if all of the electronics were dead, I understand why you took the battery out and had it checked. I thought you just drove the piss out of a motor with no oil in and and then thought you had a dead battery after seizing it. LoL over here.
Sorry for being a little rude, but I thought you were coming off with some big attitude and I thought this went down a little differently than it sounded like it did in the OP.
I think that if these idiots didn’t put any oil back into it after changing it they definitely owe you a big piece of help with the problem. I also think that if you or anyone drove the thing 10-15 miles with the motor making all of that noise it must have been making, you should take a piece of it, yourself.
This sounds like it’ll make it to small claims court.
I believe that you have a good chance of winning.
If I had a shop, sent you out with no oil and you lost a motor… I’d fix it.
In this instance you should settle with a compromise. Look at it this way… Even if they’re 100% responsible, they didn’t destroy a new engine. And you’re responsible for driving it without oil for so long. I say the reasonable solutions would be
Not bad ideas, right?
Well
Maybe not such a good chance since the receipt is lost and some of those other things
I should have read before posting!!
Pretty busy day I’ll read more later!!! HA!
Well, good luck …
I think everyone is being too critical of your having driven it fifty miles before the problem occurred. Fifty miles is not a lot, but you could have only made it five. What’s the difference whether it was five or fifty? They are supposed to check for leaks after the oil change. Standard procedure.
Why in the world would you have to check on whether or not they performed the work properly? In that case, why would anyone go to them in the first place? You might as well change your own oil. A replacement engine is going to cost a lot. It wasn’t seized when you turned it over to them. Take this to court and you’ll win if the facts are as you say. Yes, you have a small amount of complicity, but 99 out of a hundred drivers would have done exactly the same thing (and they’ll be on the jury). But there is an important lesson in this: never ignore warning lights.
I know of someone who took their car in for an oil change, and the idiots put the oil in the transmission fill, so you might want to check that, just on the off chance it happened in this case. They’re in a business where they know quite well that there is a very great risk if they strip or forget to tighten the plug, even if it only results in messing up someone’s driveway or garage. No, you can’t prove there was no oil in it, but the damage will, and there wouldn’t be much point to you taking your car in, deliberately draining the oil yourself, then driving it until it seized. You have the oil change receipt and the tow receipt (which will prove that you were on the highway when it happened, not in your driveway). That’s all you need. People have a right to expect to get what they pay for, and not to have their engines destroyed through incompetence. Why have we all become such sheep when we don’t get it? Of course they’ll claim it was your fault if they’re not reputable. That doesn’t mean it is. But I think Precision Tune is reliable and will accept responsibility.