# Elon Musk should start worrying about his next rival **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** porsche\ **Created:** [November 13, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471 "2016-11-13T14:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/41 "2016-11-16T00:17:03Z")
Needs? No. Wants? Maybe. We will see what the market is for the Porsche. I expect it to sell well to folks that can afford it. Porsche has no problem selling their current crop of vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/42 "2016-11-16T00:17:21Z")
> [@gorehamj](#): > > The world needs another $150K super-sedan like a fish needs a bicycle. EV or not. True enough. The world actually needs a modern version of the “people’s car”. Tata created one for the Indian market, and now they’ve been expanding (albeit in short steps) into more lucrative markets through acquisitions. I’d like to see them focus on a basic, no-frills, compact economy car that people of limited means could actually buy for basic transportation. The problems is meeting modern regulations. I find myself wondering of perhaps there should be a category for cars for local use. Perhaps they could have different colored license plates and be prohibited from highways. Vehicles like this Daihatsu could serve a valuable function. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/2X/6/66de0136a2ca70fa58bae5ea4f0860dde8bdfc45.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/43 "2016-11-16T00:58:28Z")
Actually, I’ve heard those no-frills econobox cars are no longer selling that well in India Apparently, many people are now earning a better wage, and accordingly want nicer cars 😏 ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/44 "2016-11-16T02:43:27Z")
I had a Daihatsu as a rental car once. It was a rattletrap. The cost was low, and I might rent another one if I’m in an area where I can’t drive fast. I’m not at all interested in buying one if Toyota decides to export them to the USA. Daihatsu is a good example of you get what you pay for. ---
**Author:** ![B.L.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@B.L.E](https://community.cartalk.com/u/B.L.E)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/45 "2016-11-16T12:06:16Z")
> [@keith](#): > > A second flywheel spinning in hte opposite direction will not solve that problem. The precess occurs 90 degrees from the applied force so flywheels spinning in opposite directions would tear themselves apart and whatever they are mounted to. Gimbal mounting is the only way. If the flywheel bearings are big enough to withstand the reaction forces of a flywheel changing its spin orientation and the frame they they are mounted on is also, reorienting the spin axis will have the gyroscopic reactions of the two flywheels canceling each other. The reaction torque of a flywheel being turned 180 degrees in a unit of time is **EXACTLY THE SAME** as the reaction torque of that same flywheel having its direction reversed by being braked to a stop and then accelerated back to full speed in the opposite direction in that same unit of time. Or another possibility is just using a single flywheel oriented so that the torque reaction to changing orientation acts to counter the normal sway caused by going around a corner. ---
**Author:** ![GorehamJ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/gorehamj/32/24103_2.png) [@GorehamJ](https://community.cartalk.com/u/GorehamJ)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/46 "2016-11-16T13:28:42Z")
I have great respect for Porsche vehicles, but in the U.S. the Macan compact crossover outsells the company’s only sedan by almost ten to one now. The larger Cayenne also outsells all of the Porsche cars combined. Porsche’s sedan sales are under 300 units per month in the U.S. and still declining. Cadillac’s big sedans are also in steep decline. The premium automakers should know better than to keep pushing expensive, high-performance four-door cars. The market has turned its attention to crossovers, and compact and mid-size are what sell best. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/47 "2016-11-16T13:52:27Z")
I test drive a 2016 Cadillac CT6 about 2 months ago it’s a very nice sedan, and attractively priced. It’s on my short list when I decide to buy a new car. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/48 "2016-11-16T14:04:00Z")
> [@db4690](#): > > I’ve heard those no-frills econobox cars are no longer selling that well in India. > Apparently, many people are now earning a better wage, and accordingly want nicer cars. Yup! _Business Week_ had an article on that very subject several months ago, and now from within India come rumors that Tata will shut-down the production of the very **_slow-selling_** Nano model: > **[Tata’s Nano car must be scrapped, analysts say](https://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/Tata%E2%80%99s-Nano-car-must-be-scrapped-analysts-say/article16083458.ece)** > > Nano’s monthly sales have slumped to 600 units from 2,300 in the year earlier period ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/49 "2016-11-17T14:13:43Z")
I guess that it would be fair to say that not enough guys in India found those _Tatas_ to be…bodacious! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/50 "2016-11-17T15:15:31Z")
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Nano was simply too small for the average Indian family. I have no idea if that’s accurate or not. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/51 "2016-11-17T15:36:19Z")
> [@the\_same\_mountainbik](#): > > the Nano was simply too small for the average Indian family That actually makes some sense, but–on the other hand–Indian families consisting of two adults and 2 or 3 children can frequently be seen riding on a motorbike. However, that does present one more possible reason for its poor sales figures. The “traditional” favorite car in India, the _ **Hindustan Ambassador** _, is actually a '50s-vintage Morris Oxford sedan that isn’t very roomy, but I suppose that it is roomier than a Tata Nano. > **[hindustan ambassador - Bing](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hindustan%2Bambassador&view=detailv2&&id=53D2E0FA77A7DD18D194206DAF39F93E1B6A9E5B&selectedIndex=0&ccid=Q73HyhxX&simid=608013679241660023&thid=OIP.M43bdc7ca1c57191789e1c9dce039673eo0)** > > Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/52 "2016-11-17T15:40:49Z")
Oh, yeah, I LIKE that car! 😄 ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/53 "2016-11-17T15:43:18Z")
…yeah, but you wouldn’t like its driving dynamics. In addition to atrocious handling and very poor acceleration, it has brakes that only…hint at…a reduction in speed. 😱 ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/54 "2016-11-17T21:19:04Z")
LOL, I’m sure you’re right. Getting parts might be a problem too. 😯 ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/55 "2016-11-17T21:26:00Z")
Re: the flywheels, it might help to remember that the energy contained in the flywheel(s) isn’t free. Some other power source has to get and keep them spinning. Then, when the car is parked, the energy contained in the flywheels is all lost as it spins down, converted to heat energy. ---
**Author:** ![B.L.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@B.L.E](https://community.cartalk.com/u/B.L.E)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/56 "2016-11-18T01:32:46Z")
> [@the\_same\_mountainbik](#): > > e flywheels, it might help to remember that the energy contained in the flywheel(s) isn’t free. Some other power source has to get and keep them spinning. Then, when the car is parked, the energy contained in the flywheels is all lost as it spins down, converted to heat energy. Well yea. The energy to charge an electric car isn’t free either. I don’t think flywheels will ever be an alternative to battery storage because of their limited energy storage capacity and like you mention, they eventually lose energy through friction. That can be minimized with low friction bearings and having the flywheel itself spin in a vacuum. However, they may be perfectly suitable as a kinetic energy recovery braking system in urban vehicles. Let the car’s kinetic energy become flywheel energy as the drive motors brake the vehicle and then return that energy to the car during the next acceleration. It should dramatically improve the gas mileage of city buses and garbage trucks while minimizing brake wear at the same time. I’ve ridden city buses and it seems they are always either accelerating or braking, with some of the drivers accelerating until it’s time to brake. ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 11:25am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/57 "2016-11-20T11:25:58Z")
© The driving operation of the vehicle is fed back to the driver by sounds. This helps realize a sense of oneness between the vehicle and the driver and thus enhances the “fun-to-drive” aspect. VW did this years ago with out the silly artificially generated sounds with their Fahrvergnügen campaign. ---
**Author:** ![B.L.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@B.L.E](https://community.cartalk.com/u/B.L.E)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471/58 "2016-11-20T16:38:14Z")
Well, since flooring a Tesla is said to accelerate you into the future, maybe is should make TARDIS sound effects. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/elon-musk-should-start-worrying-about-his-next-rival/96471.md?page=2)