E85 Fuel: Good Or Bad?

Pure gasoline, or gasoline with alternate octane enhancers? I suspect the latter.

I am in favor of ethanol as an octane enhancer because it seems to be the least environmentally unfriendly chemical that raises the octane of gasoline. I don’t want MTBE in the gas reservoirs at my local gas stations. There were leaks that poisoned ground water and if we went to MTBE or another, similarly poisonous, persistent substance, we would poison the ground water again.

I think it’s pure gasoline, they advertise it as such and it is significantly more per gallon than E10 is. I know PA banned MTBE well over 10 years ago (probably closer to 15), so it’s definitely not MTBE.

This is a small family owned station that also sells diesel, autopropane, and CNG. Honestly, I don’t usually use pure due to the cost. My vehicles are new enough that I’m not worried about the small amount of Ethanol. I agree with you, too, that it’s the best available octane enhancer.

I too can legally buy ethanol-free fuel for on-road use. That it’s illegal to use is usually an urban myth, which is why I never ask for legal advice in a car forum.

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Everyone knows that all information on the internet has been verified @Whitey. Anyone who lies here will be banned. I read it on a web site just yesterday.

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While that’s true, Ethanol is still dead. It was meant to be a bridge between fossil fuels and alternative energy, and now alternative energy is ramping up to widespread availability. Tesla, Nissan, Chevy, Chrysler, Audi, Ford, and even BMW have electric cars on the market, and Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Aston Martin, Lucid, and Faraday Future are set to bring more to market this year.

There are even two electric semi trucks coming out, and there’s significant work being done to make electric farm vehicles, including tractors. As electric charging infrastructure becomes more widespread and efficient, fuel cars are going to go away because they’ll be more expensive, less reliable, and the price to fuel them will rise beyond what makes economic sense.

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Whether it’s on the internet, chatting with a driver at a truck stop, or talking to a professor in a classroom, it bothers me when people spread misinformation.

I’ve had run-ins with Miss Information, and it wasn’t pretty. :wink:

There’s a lot of confusion of E10 and E85.

I agree E85 was probably politically motivated.

But E10 is used as an oxygenate to meet the EPA’s 1990 clean air act. It replaces MTBE which replaced Lead as an anti-knock additive.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_mtbe_vs_non_alcohol_gas.html

Pure implies no octane enhancing additives. If so, the octane rating would be less than 87 if it is regular gasoline. My guess is that they do have an octane enhancer added to bring it up to 87. Otherwise, there would be detonation problems.

Not quite. One can achieve premium octane levels without lead, MTBE, or ethanol:

"The BTEX complex is a hydrocarbon mixture of benzene, toluene, xylene and ethyl-benzene. Commonly referred to as gasoline aromatics, these compounds are refined from low-octane petroleum products into a high-octane gasoline additive. While some volume of BTEX is native to gasoline, it is also added to finished gasoline to boost its octane rating. The total volume of BTEX (aromatics) in finished gasoline depends on the desired octane value and other desired fuel properties.

A consequence of lead’s phase-out was the increase of BTEX in gasoline. When faced with the removal of lead as the primary octane provider in gasoline, refiners had two available alternatives, BTEX and ethanol. The refining industry invested in additional refining capacity to replace lead with BTEX, a high-octane petroleum refining product. As a result of its substitution for lead, BTEX volume rose from 22 percent to roughly a third of the gasoline pool by 1990. In premium gasoline grades, the BTEX volume content was as high as 50 percent. In mandating reformulated gasoline and other programs, EPA has reduced the volume of aromatics to between 25 to 28 percent of the conventional gasoline pool."

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IMHO the government mandate for ethanol for over-the-road vehicles is a way to pander to two special interest groups in one shot; agribusinesses and environmentalists. Legislators make their fortunes pandering to special interest groups.

Let the hand grenades fly! :crazy_face:

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That explains the additives needed to increase octane without ethanol. Thanks for the information, it is what I was looking for.

And as for you, mountainbike, I agree, if you mean the Corn States legislators got together to scheme a windfall for their constituent farmers, and other legislators waved as the bill sailed by. I’m used to 10% ethanol, and so is my car, but I’m not at all enthusiastic about raising the ethanol content of gasoline. Not One Bit.

If you have a turbo-charged car and tune for the higher octane of E85, you’ll get a ton of power. However, since you don’t have a turbo, it’s a waste of money to buy E85 since the cost per mile is higher.

Me neither.
IMHO ethanol is a farm subsidy program foisted upon the population under false pretenses. The fact that it gives the environmentalists the warm-fuzzies too was a side benefit.
Ethanol contains less energy per volume than gasoline. About 85% that of gasoline. Ethanol reduces gas mileage. But we’re stuck with it as an oxygenator, not because it improves performance, but because it creates a huge mandated market for farmers.

Corn products in the form of high-fructose corn syrup to replace corn sugar are also a huge market now, has been for some years. “Classic Coke” contains high-fructose corn syrup, which is why it doesn’t resemble real coke, the coke I grew up with. Yet the medical community is now saying high-fructose corn syrup is bad for us. Fortunately, we can now buy Mexican Coke, made with corn syrup, The first time I tasted it, not too many years ago, I immediately recognized the taste from my youth. It was great. It’s real Coke, from years long gone.

Gotta hand it to the agricultural lobby. They do their job brilliantly. There’s no lobby more powerful.

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I can’t think of any environmentalists who want ethanol knowing how much fossil fuel it takes to make it.

That’s probably true today, but until recently the impression of the general public was that ethanol saved fossil fuel. It may still be.

the only thing that ethanol is/was saving is the american farm industry :man_farmer::woman_farmer::tractor:

Oh, and it’s also saving many politicians and lobbyists from seeking other employment :smirk:

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I find it kind of ironic that some of the corn farmers around here will tout Ethanol until hell freezes over but try to avoid using it in their personal vehicles and small engines… :frowning:

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That tells a great deal of truth about ethanol.
Unfortunately, we’re all stuck with it for now. So we may as well smile, drive on, and hope that the new 15% mix that was approved by the D.O.T. this past year for over the road use in all cars never becomes commonplace. My guess is that it won’t. Any station that orders it will probably lose a whole lot of business and no other station will follow. At least that’s my optimistic hope.

I have no opinion of good or bad, if your car accepts whatever put in whatever, Now if weekly budget for gas is a concern, fine calculate it out, my guess is it is pretty much a break even situation at the end of the day.

The general public aren’t environmentalists. Real environmentalists have been opposed to ethanol - at least the corn-based swindle the USA uses - since at least the early 2000’s. There were even articles in Car and Driver back then pinpointing exactly why ethanol doesn’t work and can’t work.

It never had anything to do with the environment, or stretching oil reserves. It had everything to do with farmers wanting to sell ethanol, and anyone who came out opposed to it would lose the Iowa primaries.

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