Are these OEM tires?
My 2006 Matrix came with Continentals (I forget which model). They started out crappy and went downhill.
They wore in a strange uneven pattern that called for flipping them on the rims halfway in their life.
They were noisy. Wet and light snow traction were awful even when they had lots of tread.
All this in spite of good alignment, pressure maintenance and timely rotations.
After 25,000 miles of increasing misery I sent them to that great tire fire in the sky.
The Yokohama Avid Envigors on it now are cause for jubilation.
Ironically the best bicycle tires, IMO, are Continentals.
circuitsmith, the Vibe came with Bridgestone Potenza’s and they too were horrible.
There is not an all season made that will be very effective in 6inches of snow on a fwd compact.
BTW, in retreading "Cig’s " comments, it makes perfect sense to run winter tires at higher pressure. That would do a better job of keeping the deeper tread of a winter tire open and with more rubber that remains soft vs the harder of all seasons, the ride should be less effected. I find that the case of mine as well. It should also help firm up the natural loss of handling with a deep soft tread.
Overall “Scooter” , I hope you are getting the message. Winter tires !
Agree with Scooter that the OEM Bridgestones on Toyotas are poor in snoiw. Thar’s why we got the Michelins for winter driving.
One thing that hasn’t been emphasized enough is the effect wear has on snow traction. At about 5/32nds tread depth remaining (about 3/4 worn), the snow traction is a mere fraction of what it was when the tires are new. This aaplies to both winter tires and all season tires.
And just a side note on the pressure thing: More pressure in winter helps regardless of whether a tire is an all season tires or a winter tire. Some of the reason why tire manufacturers recommend using higher pressures in winter is because of the effect temperature has in inflation pressure. But there is a benefit to cutting through the snow and slush and getting to the pavement. Pavement has much better traction than snow does.
HOWEVER, the effect is small - especially compared to the difference between all sesason and winter tires. Winter tires are SOOOOO much better.
There is not an all season made that will be very effective in 6inches of snow on a fwd compact.
And how many times have you driven or need to drive in 6" of snow. Even here in NE it’s NEVER happened to me. The snowplow drivers aren’t that bad. They’re plowing before the roads get that bad.
Mike
I have driven in conditions like that.
My first experience was in…I think…1994. I was attending a funeral in Newark, and when we exited the funeral home at ~10:00 AM, the snow was already beginning to pile up. I had already told my employer to expect me no later than 11:30, but that was not to be. As I tried to get out of Newark and get to a highway, I was quickly greeted by gridlock, as cars and trucks bogged down in the rapidly accumulating snow.
At the time, I was driving a FWD Accord, shod with some kind of Goodyear Eagles. My traction was…okay…but not great. All around me, I encountered various types of vehicles at crazy angles because they had spun out or gotten bogged down. I finally got home to central NJ (a distance of ~20 miles) at about 2:00 PM, totally exhausted from the long, slow slog home. I phoned my employer to tell her that I would not be making it in, only to find out that they had shut down a few hours earlier.
That day, I had driven through several municipalities, as well as on the NJ Turnpike, and the plows were either nowhere to be seen, or unable to keep up with the rate of snowfall. Even the NJ Turnpike was down to one lane of traffic, moving at ~20-25 mph, due to the horrendous conditions. I think that the only reason I did not get bogged down in the snow was because those all-season tires were relatively new, the Accord had the capability to get rolling in 2nd gear, and because I do have some experience in how to drive in snow.
My second experience was back around…2002 or so. A blizzard began in the mid-afternoon, and by the time that our employer had allowed us all to leave at ~2:30PM, there was already about 3 inches on the roadways. The rate at which the snow fell was incredibly fast.
My commute home normally took about 30-35 minutes, first on some local roads, then on the Garden State Parkway and I-287. The few snowplows that I saw on the way home were too little, too late. In total, as the snow came down and piled up rapidly, it took me a little over 4 hours to drive home. Some local roads near my home had become impassable by that time as a result of the abandoned cars that were blocking the roads, and as a result, I had to do a lot of searching to find a way to actually get to my house on rural roads that were still passable.
Finally, I pulled into my driveway at ~6:30 PM, and I only was able to get though on those local roads and to be able to get into my driveway because I was driving an Outback with 4 Michelin X-Ice tires. Some neighbors couldn’t get home because their cars (sans winter tires) couldn’t get through the accumulated snow on local roads, and some others who did manage to get home had to abandon their cars on our street, as they couldn’t get enough traction to get up their driveway.
After peeling myself off the driver’s seat and using the toilet, I went outside with a measuring stick, and found that the accumulation was ~8 inches by that time–and plows still hadn’t come anywhere near my street.
I started using winter tires in 2001, after finding out the hard way that the standard “all-season” Bridgestones on my Outback were essentially useless in winter conditions. I continue to use winter tires because of the incredible difference that they make in allowing you to get rolling, to take turns with more stability, and–most important of all–to drastically reduce your stopping distance on snow and ice. However, no tire will make you invincible, so it is still necessary to leave very large following distances between you and the cars in front of you, and to drive much more slowly than normal.
So–never say never. It has happened to me on more than one occasion, and it could happen to you.
I’ve lived in some very different states when it comes to plowing snow. In NH and similar areas they send the plows and apply salt as soon as the snow starts falling. In NJ they wait until the snow has just about run its course and then send out the plows when a storm is predicted to drop about 6" of snow or less. When the storm is predicted to exceed 6" they send out the plows after the first 4" is on the roads.
In the west the snow is often light and fluffy so 6" is relatively easy to drive in. When that 6" is heavy wet mushy stuff it can throw a small car all over the place as you deal with tire tracks from previous traffic which is often the case in the mid Atlantic states and those odd snowfalls in the Southeast.
Whatever the situation winter tires have a distinct advantage over all but the very best all season tires. I’ve encountered heavy snow on the roads just about everywhere I’ve lived. Sometimes the best way to avoid driving in heavy stuff is to stay home until the plows come out. One event hit northern NJ midday and all the business and schools closed sending everyone out on the roads at approx. the same time. Since many cars got stuck Rt. 46 (and many other roads) became impassable. I left my car on the road and hiked to a nearby Totowa Holiday Inn and got one of the last rooms available.
I have driven in conditions like that.
OH…I’ve driven in those conditions too. But NOT in NH. It depends on where you live and what type of snow conditions you get.
NH really doesn’t get that much snow…More then NJ…but NOTHING even close to Great Lakes lake effect snow area. There are very rare occasions here in NH where the snow on the roads will pile up faster then the plows can keep up…but we’re talking about blizzard conditions where you don’t want to be traveling in anyways.
In the Lake Effect area of Upstate NY is a little different. Those lake effect storms just pop-up without warning and can dump FEET of snow within just a few hours. I’ve been caught in a few of those storms just driving to and from work. And that’s why MOST people drive 4wd/awd vehicles with GOOD dedicated snow-tires. But for areas like NH where 40" of snow annually is the norm any decent all-season snow tires will be fine…as opposed to upstate NY where 100" of snow in one year is considered well below normal.
“any decent all-season snow tires will be fine”
Since you usually tell us that winter tires are not necessary, I am assuming that you meant “all-season tires”, rather than “all-season snow tires”. Please correct me if I am wrong.
The problem with so-called all-season tires is that there is no standard whatsoever for what constitutes an all-season tire. So, the OEM Goodyear Eagles that came on my Accord were…decent on winter roads…but the OEM Bridgestone Potenzas that came on my Outback were absolutely useless on snow. However, both mfrs were legally able to call them “all-season” tires. When someone buys a new car, he has no way of knowing how those OEM tires will actually perform in severe winter conditions until…maybe it is a big problem.
Similarly, when someone buys replacement tires, if he asks the tire salesman, “Is this tire good on snow?”, how does he know if the salesman is basing his answer on reality, or if the salesman (who might have been a cashier in the supermarket the previous week) is just pulling an answer out of his posterior in order to sell some tires? Yes, you can go to sites like Tire Rack in order to see how consumers rated different brands of tires in terms of winter performance, but I doubt that most of the general public actually does this.
The bottom line is that someone’s “all-season” tires might be “okay” in snowy conditions, they will never be the equal of a modern winter tire in those same conditions.
Since you usually tell us that winter tires are not necessary, I am assuming that you meant “all-season tires”, rather than “all-season snow tires”. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Yes that is EXACTLY what I mean.
The problem with so-called all-season tires is that there is no standard whatsoever for what constitutes an all-season tire.
I agree with that. I’ve seen several all-season tires that would be lousy even on 1" of snow. But there are other all-season tires that do just fine in the snow. Michelin Radial-X, Cooper CS4, Continental extreme contact DWS just to name a few. None of those tires are considered All-Season Snow tires. But they have no problem what-so-ever dealing with the snow in NH on a fwd vehicle. Wife has only owned those 3 tires (several sets of the cooper and Michelin) driving in NH for the past 30 years without so much as a hickup.
If we moved back to Upstate NY (Pulaski) then we’d get dedicated snow tires due to the 10 times the amount of snow they get there.
Just because someone lives in an area that gets snow doesn’t mean they NEED snow tires. There are major differences between NH snow and Great Lakes snow. Manchester NH only averages about 50" a year. If we moved back to Upstate NY (Pulaski) then we’d get dedicated snow tires due to the 5 times the amount of snow they get there compared to where we live in NH.
Just to clarify a point, I should have mentioned that there are now a few “all-season” tires that bear the Mountain Peak/Snowflake symbol on the sidewall. Since there IS a winter traction standard that must be met in order to use this symbol on a tire, an all-season tire that has this imprint on the sidewall will be a safe bet for winter driving, unlike the bulk of all-season tires that might or might not be safe on winter roads.
The tires that come to mind in this newer category are some of the Nokian tires, and the Goodyear Fortera Triple-Tred. There are probably a few others, but I don’t know for sure.
When a friend of mine was replacing the sucky Geolandar tires on his Rav-4, he wanted good winter traction, but did not want to have to change tires for different seasons. After some research, I recommended those Goodyears for him, and they have proven to be quite good in snow. Of course, like with most tire designs, there are some inherent compromises, and in the case of those Goodyears it is a relatively high noise level on the highway. However, overall, this is a tire that can see someone through all 4 seasons with safety.
Yes…Increasing pressure is backwards
No… You dont need winter tires
Buy good all season tires and drive accordingly
Im running 31x 10.5 mud tires on ice at -40
Drive accordingly
“Buy good all season tires and drive accordingly”
Unfortunately, unless someone knows enough to look for the Mountain Peak/Snowflake symbol on the tire’s sidewall, he/she really has no way of knowing at the time of purchase if a particular “all-season” tire really is a “good” one. I don’t want to shock you, but not all tire salesmen are knowledgeable or honest.
Here in NH…So far this year winter tires would have given my wife better traction then her current tires for a total of 1 day. Even last year with the amount of snow we had…total number of days accounted for less then 10.
For most years Southern NH sees snow from Late November through early April. That’s a total of 120 days that we might get snow. And for an average winter in NH you’d be driving on dry pavement 100 days.
So any decent all-season tire should have no problem getting you around for those 10 days that the roads have more then 1" of snow.
This winter in NE PA we got 8" or snow for Halloween; zippo since. So far this isn’t a typical winter at all in my area.
Mike, you’re stuck on this issue of snow being required to benefit from winter tires. The more prevalent condition that IS related to the benefits of winter tires is ICE. Ice is much more of a concern than snow. It’s harder to spot, pops up without any forewarning and occurs more frequently than snow. When I lived in an area that got 10x the snow I see now, I never had winter tires. When I moved to the ice coast, I quickly became a convert to the benefits of WINTER tires. They make a huge difference on both snow and ice.
VDC…your friend is not doing the “gazintas” correctly. He needs your advice, badly. I can only guess how much these 4season tires cost over the life of the car, especially for some one that doesn’t care to rotate them ( a Change over is no more then a rotation).
Buying snow tires and quite summer tires specialized for each, can be run a lot longer then a compromizd tread design. Partly because you can run summer tires in the summer to near legal tread depth much longer then these all seasons need replacement for winter traction. 2/32 vs 5/32 is a lot of extra tire tread wear he is missing. I guarantee that the tire will cost an arm and a leg, with a need for more frequent replace ment to maintain that snow flake traction level then a dedicated winter and summer tire used together and rotated in the spring and fall. And, he will be getting worse overall performance.
BTW, I bought “one off” OEM steel rims for winter tires for my RAV very cheaply and had them shipped free from OHio…so rim cost is no excuse. The other hidden cost with those traction devices on new cars…is more frequent $$$$$ brake jobs when using tires with less than the best overall traction.
“twin turbo” I agree with you…I can’t speak for “mikeinNH” but when I say snow, I include hard pack which in very cold weather has the same traction requirements as ice and still needs things like studs, soft rubber, and overall good winter tread design including lots of siping. This is stuff you don’t get with all seasons. NH in some areas doesn’t have a big winter traction requirement if you wait till the plowing and sanding is done, only travel paved roads and have a hubby to rescue you. IMO, those are the real valid reasons for not using winter tires in the North East.
Besides, all that liquid calcium they dump on roads does a great job of hanging around breaking up the ice and snow continuously while ruining car bodies and brakes and polluting ground water…everything you could possibly want to keep our economy going and people employed. The North East must swim in the stuff in the winter. But, we save on snow tires…