That point is known as the knee of the curve. That point, or speed, will be different for different roads and will change over time due to traffic conditions and technology in our vehicles that help us avoid accidents, but it will always be there. Keeping the speed limits below the knee should provide an acceptable risk for the driving public.
As for my experience in Germany, the roads with unlimited speed had very little traffic and they weren’t very common. Most of the roads had a speed limit of 130 kph or about 82 mph. In the towns, the speed limits were about 30 kph or about 20 mph, but the roads were so narrow, you really didn’t want to go above the speed limits.
In Germany 130 is the suggested speed (“Richtgeschwindigkeit”) for most of the Autobahn - it is not a speed limit. Driving higher than that speed is perfectly legit but does have legal ramifications if you’re in an accident, which makes sense.
Besides being perfectly flat and very well maintained, it also is one of the longest highway systems in the world. i wonder why it was built, with that very little traffic on it, Keith?
I’ve driven their Autobahn extensively. There are lots of cars on it. They keep their distances so maybe it just looks less busy. Germans love to drive, believe you me. Lord knows they have cars in Germany, perfectly capable of taking on that road.
No doubt that at their average speeds, when they get into an accident, things get nasty but their fatality rates are way less than here in the US. Just look it up because there are wicked many stats out that support that claim.
Speed is just another variable in the possible cause of automotive fatalities, one that can actually be mitigated much easier than stupidity.
I can tell you it has almost nothing to do with what you or I think. It is the associated risk/cost.
An actuary would tell you that the likelihood of a very expensive accident/casualty is much more likely the higher the speeds. This is why Insurance companies fight/lobby for lower speed limits even in Texas.
High speeds would cause more problems for me,70 is all I can handle-I realize my limitations and yes, when 81 gets crowded,I hit US 11,I make no bones about my reaction times are slower then the average person and cant handle but one thing at a time.That being said,more power to the average person and I have a feeling that I would like dedicated truck highways.(a little off the subject,but do you realize how much undesirable cargo the railroads keep off the roadways?)-Kevin
Germany has been struggling with speed limit issues of late. The percentage of the Autobahn that’ve is unregulated shrinks every year as traffic increases, especially truck traffic which used to be very rare, by design. They are also having to add lanes, and that also requires speed limits. When one lane plus a lane to pass can handle all the traffic, the etiquette is clear. Anyhow, Germany’s traffic fatality rates aren’t so outstandingly low that we should be studying them. The excellence of their drivers is overrated. I suspect good highway engineering and maintenance and an adequate police presence are more important.
There are parts of the interstate system in the West that could support 85 - in good weather, during the day. But most have too many trucks that won’t/shouldn’t go any faster than they do. In my teens my dad was drive driving us all from LA to Las Vegas on I-15 at about 65 when someone tried to merge left into us as we passed her. My father had to steer us off the road into the broad, rocky drainage area between lanes. I still don’t know how he got our overpacked 1971 Ford wagon under control and stopped. Those rocks were like baseballs. But we did, and the car was even driveable. At 85 anything could have happened. At best the car would have suffered significant damage. At worst we would have rolled and six people would have died. I’ve had a healthy respect for speed since then.
By and large, it is much more difficult to get a driver’s license in Western Europe than here because the tests tend to be a lot more stringent. They will fail you for nearly anything. It is also expensive to get a license because they don’t have driver’s permits for cars. You have to go through a driving school and are supposed to have a certain number of hours before you can even even apply for a testing date. If you fail, you have to go through the entire process again.
That’s not to say that idiots won’t get be able to get a license - they will - but it does serve as a filter.
Germans tend to be a fairly disciplined people and will tell you LOUDLY when you don’t comply. There is some positive peer pressure there. That makes them fairly good drivers, I think.
To illustrate, I was in Munich about a month ago with some Americans that don’t speak a word of German. Munich has a very nice subway system where you have to use escalators to get to the trains. Their unwritten rule is that you stay on the right on the escalators if you’re standing still so that those in a hurry can pass you on the left. They take that very seriously.
The people I was with ignored it, even when I told them about the custom. They insisted to stand next to each other so they could chat like 10 year old school girls. That is, until they were literally yelled at by dozens of people, the way only Germans can yell. It was funny to watch to have this old dude with a cane swing it to get his point across, calling them all the good names in the dirty German dictionary.
They knew to stay on the right by the time we left the city.
Driving cars there is no different. Positive peer pressure is a good thing.
I maintain that the problems on the roads are caused by idiots but the good news is that they are trainable, given time and enough people swinging canes at them while yelling in German.
Road design is key to safety at higher speeds. New roads are graded better and at higher angles on curves if they are designed for higher speeds. They also have better rain runoff and less pooling of water on the road surface. If Texas is building proper high speed roads they can set high speed limits safely. On thing that a new high speed road must have is more ability to contain and control a vehicle that has lost complete control. Wider berms, higher and stronger guard rails, signs and sign posts that “break away” when struck, etc.
Most of the current interstate system was designed in the '60’s and built in the '60’s and '70’s. In some places upgrading the road for higher speed is possible and others either not possible or economically not doable. Traffic is so thick in the NE that a repaved road surface is worn down quickly which means pooling of water in the areas where the wheels travel most. In wet weather hydroplaning is a common problem. Put the speed limits at 80 between NYC and Boston and watch the fun as cars go crazy in a heavy downpour.
Oh, I live along the NYC/Boston corridor. The 65/55 speed limit is fine here, with them roads being as crooked and pot hole ridden as they are. It is also way too busy to go fast most of the time.
My experience with studies, even government studies is that they always start with the conclusion and then hunt for the facts that support that conclusion.What you call a "conclusion," I call a "hypothesis." I believe that is how experiments and studies are supposed to work. You develop a hypothesis through observation, and then you test that hypothesis. If you don't have a hypothesis before you start a study, I don't know where you would start.
It’s always a good idea to look for conflicts of interest, which is why I prefer university studies that are not privately funded. Most of them are funded by government grants.
I drive for a living, having traveled all over the place, I see the speed limit issue as a local one, when your talking about a freeway across wide open places, 75-85MPH speeds are fine, even on 2 lane and smaller roads, depending on the condition of the road, and the amount of traffic speed limits of 65mph or 70mph are ok. However in heavily populated areas slower speeds of 50 to 60 or even 40 are better suited. In areas where snow and weather are an issue, seasonal speed limits or variable speed limits come into play, make sure though there are plenty of signs. The BIGGEST problems with speed limits are the states that use split speeds, in the last few years, I have seen some states do away with those, and I have seen LESS accidents, other states have closed the gap on the split, wich has helped however a SPLIT SPEED is dangerous. Also large trucking companies that choose to use speed governers on thier trucks should also consider some common sense, and use regional fleet operations, out west where speed limits are 75, 80, and in some places 85, they should consider running some faster trucks, I have seen many close calls, because of poeple running up on a 62mph truck in a 75mph zone. With fuel costs being what they are I generally average 65 mph, as this is where my truck gets the best mileage, however if I am in an area with a higher speed and the traffic flow is fast and heavy, I will speed up to maintain the flow of traffic, and make the driving enviroment safer. I do not think there is a correct answer for the entire country with this and it should be left up to local governments to decide what is best for thier region and for the rest of us to use COMMON SENSE when driving.
@A101, are “split speed” limits where there is a lower speed limit for trucks? My truck (a company truck) was governed at 64 MPH. Man I hated that, especially when I drove in 75 MPH zones, but if the company is paying for the fuel, I guess it’s their right to govern a truck like that.
out west where speed limits are 75, 80, and in some places 85, they should consider running some faster trucks,
Some trucks can actually do this - their governors are electronic, and GPS-based. Mostly they’re used to give the truck extra power for climbing hills when the GPS discovers the truck’s in the Rockies, but there’s no reason it can’t be used as a speed control either.
Really, the speed differential thing could be largely fixed if we could figure out a way to get drivers to understand the drive-right concept. It doesn’t matter if the guy 2 lanes over is going 20mph slower than you are as long as he stays 2 lanes over.
I guess I’m kind of contrarian coming from the time when the interstate started out at 70-75 and two lane roads were all 65. I saw how bunched up cars were on the road when it got lowered to 55 and that was not good. I know all the public safety people rail on about speed but I think its more to do with paying attention than anything else. On one of the speed channel shows yesterday a lady was on talking about the speed she drove on the autobahn in Germany. 130, 140, 160, and not nearly the problems as here but she said you drove and didn’t do anything else except drive and pay attention. A state politician was talking about the need to upgrade a section of road to 4 lane and made the comment that the road was not designed for the current speeds which is posted at 65. I thought no, that road was designed for 65, not 55 like today. Must be younger than me if he doesn’t remember. Remember the speed limit signs with two limits? 65 in the day, with 55 in a blackened portion for at night. Made more sense than today.
I know all the public safety people rail on about speed but I think its more to do with paying attention than anything else.I don't think there is much debate about that. We probably all agree speed alone isn't the largest factor. The main debate seems centered around whether speed is any factor. I wonder how anyone can refuse to admit speed is a factor at all. Personally, I think when something like a blow-out happens, speed must be a factor that affects whether you can maintain or regain control the car after the initial blow-out. For those who have never experienced a blow-out, good for you, but I like to plan for unexpected contingencies.
Remember the speed limit signs with two limits? 65 in the day, with 55 in a blackened portion for at night. Made more sense than today.I think Texas still has those.
“…are “split speed” limits where there is a lower speed limit for trucks?”
That’s how Germany does it on the Autobahn. The rural areas have no speed limit on days without precipitation for cars, but trucks are always limited and must always drive in the right-most lane.
Remember the speed limit signs with two limits? 65 in the day, with 55 in a blackened portion for at night. Made more sense than today.I think Texas still has those.
Texas had those until last year, with a statewide night maximum of 65, and occasionally lower). Changes last year legalized speed limits as high as 75 on any highway, removal of lower night and truck speed limits, and limits as high as 85 on roads “designed to accommodate travel at that established speed or a higher speed.” Some people think that last part was a giveaway to the company building the toll road referred to in the article. Without that law, 80 is legal only on parts of I-10 and I-20 so the highest limit on that road would be 75, which would mean no extra money for TxDOT.
I’ve notice how people who want a higher speed limit point to the Autobahn but there are rules including by not limited to
Tires must be rated for a vehicle’s top speed – Not following the two-second rule – Refusing to leave the left lane to allow a faster vehicle to pass–The right lane must be used for travel, and the left lane for passing --Emergency lanes are for emergencies only (running out of gas isn’t emergency as you could have avoided it)–Using the horn (for other than emergencies), hand gestures, and flashing lights is prohibited. All of which can result in a fine and sometime a very large fine.
Also your car needs to pass inspection.
I hate to say the average driving ability has decreased, but just looking at the ads put out by car companies, you’ve seen them where they basically say I wasn’t paying attention but my car was. They put more and more “toys” in a car to distract a drive, lower the skill level to drive a car, can’t park, the car will do it for you. Can’t watch the road in front of you, the car will do it for you. Etc. And you want people who text and drive, who watch videos while they drive, playing video games while they drive, go even faster?
I agree in some places you can drive 85 mph safely, but can the average driver of today with their skill level drive at 85 mph? I say sadly not. Just look around you next time you drive, look at how many people are not paying any attention to the road, too many drivers are so absorbed with other things they forget, or were never taught, their job is to drive above all else. Now if they only would take themselves out of the gene pool it wouldn’t bother me too much, but odds they take bystanders with them. It’s not about the speed it about the driver.
Whitey, your theory that the hypothesis come first is a theory. In my experience with government studies, if the research does not support the “hypothesis”, then more research is done. We used to joke about the “Fairfax Law”, only the facts that support the hypothesis are “fair facts”. I am now very jaded against “studies”, even university studies.
Now as for my driving experience in Germany, positive by the way, was that there were few autobahns with an unlimited speed, and they had very little traffic on them when I used them. I was also warned that they used speed cameras on the Autobahn a lot, especially on bridges that have a 100 kph limit, posted or not. If I got a mail order ticket, it would go to the rental car company and teh fine would be added to my credit card.