# Dexron III + Friction Modifier = T-IV Transmission fluid? **URL:** \ **Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\ **Created:** [January 4, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498 "2013-01-04T03:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![michaelscai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@michaelscai](https://community.cartalk.com/u/michaelscai)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/1 "2013-01-04T03:40:49Z")
I went to this quick lube place, they did a transmission fluid flush and put in Dexron III. I came back home and found my 2009 Mazda6 3.7L V6 requires JWS 3309 fluid, so I called them up… they said they added Dexron III plus some friction modifier to make it compatible with Toyota T-IV fluid (and T-IV fluid is same as jws 3309 fluid) Is that true? or should I flush my transmission with jws 3309 ASAP?? ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/2 "2013-01-04T03:55:35Z")
Bullpucky. Take it to a real place and get it flushed. Pronto. ---
**Author:** ![michaelscai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@michaelscai](https://community.cartalk.com/u/michaelscai)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/3 "2013-01-04T04:00:17Z")
what should I say to them to get my money back??? ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/4 "2013-01-04T04:14:39Z")
You’re unlikely to get your money back. Chalk it up to the cost of an education and don’t get this jiond of work done at a quicky lube ever again. ---
**Author:** ![f848](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@f848](https://community.cartalk.com/u/f848)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/5 "2013-01-04T04:22:53Z")
Agreed. You need to have a full fluid replacement with the proper fluid done a soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/6 "2013-01-04T04:25:39Z")
One more vote for TSMB and f848. Quicky lube places don’t know/don’t care (often, there are certainly a few exceptions). ---
**Author:** ![michaelscai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@michaelscai](https://community.cartalk.com/u/michaelscai)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/7 "2013-01-04T04:29:46Z")
why should I get it flushed right away? if the lube place did me wrong, shouldn’t I be able to explain to them in a intelligent way?? Is there anybody that can provide a detailed explaination what they did is not good for my car other than these one liners?? ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/8 "2013-01-04T04:36:43Z")
You appear to have the incorrect fluid in your transmission, which may not be fully compatible with the materials (polymers, gaskets) and may have the incorrect fluid properties (viscosity) to work in the very specific design parameters for your transmission. Not that the quicky lube would know, understand, or care. They are INFAMOUS for doing things the wrong way, I’d be amazed if they admitted to it or offered any correct fluid in place of the wrong one they used. I would not trust them to fix it correctly, even if they said they did. Do not use them. Period. I learned this by being lied to and having mistakes that, had I not found out, could have resulted in NO BRAKES. ---
**Author:** ![JoeMario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JoeMario](https://community.cartalk.com/u/JoeMario)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/9 "2013-01-04T04:51:44Z")
Your Mazda owner’s manual calls for a specific type of fluid, as you noted. On many cars, if you don’t use the exact transmission the manual calls for, you can expect problems. Adding “modifiers” to make one fluid behave like another fluid is tolerated by some vehicles, but definitely not for all. Quick Lube places often have a business model centered around making the most profit while your car is in their bay. That often means pushing transmission flushes (which are highly profitable) and stocking “one-size-fits-all” fluids. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/10 "2013-01-04T19:39:03Z")
Why should you get it flushed right away? Because if it is incompatable with your tranny’s needs, the longer you keep it in there is the more damage it’ll do. If you want to fight the lube joint, get it flushed with the proper fluid and THEN fight with them until one of you wears the other out. Save the tranny, then go after the money. JoeMario posted an excellent description of Skippy Lube business models and why these things happen. ---
**Author:** ![lion9car](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/59ef9b/32.png) [@lion9car](https://community.cartalk.com/u/lion9car)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/11 "2013-01-04T19:55:25Z")
Here’s another vote for replacing it with the correct fluid and using a real mechanic from now on. You’ll probably spend more time arguing with then than the refund is worth, so I’d just forget about it and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Stoveguyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Stoveguyy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Stoveguyy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/12 "2013-01-04T20:19:16Z")
Did u do it at quick lube because it was cheaper than the dealer? Or did the shop say u really need to change ur trans fluid or bad things will happen? So u figured, it’s quick and painless, go ahead? 99% of people never even think of flushing their trans. But u sound like a knowledgeable type and actually know what fluid u should use. Which is good. ---
**Author:** ![michaelscai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@michaelscai](https://community.cartalk.com/u/michaelscai)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/13 "2013-01-04T22:36:17Z")
i was changing it because it was never done and car has 100k miles and the oil look brownish… and yes it was cheaper. Anyway won’t do it again at these lube places: the people at this website seem to think its ok to leave the oil there for a while: > **[Dexron III + Friction Modifier = T-IV fluid ??? | ATF, Differential, Trans,...](http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2857200#Post2857200)** > > I went to this quick lube place, they did a transmission fluid flush and put in Dexron III. I came back home and found my 2009 Mazda6 3.7L V6 requires JWS 3309 fluid, so I called them up.. they said they added Dexron III plus some friction modifier... ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/14 "2013-01-04T22:44:23Z")
It’ll only be cheaper if it cause no problem. Your choice, your gamble. ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/15 "2013-01-04T22:53:10Z")
Bob is **_not_** the oil guy, at least not in my opinion. Your first mistake was getting a flush. Your second mistake was getting a flush at a quicky lube place. Did they drop your pan and clean/replace your filter? I doubt they did. Normally I am opposed to doing a transmission fluid flush, I much prefer the drain and refill approach, but you now have one of those rare cases where I have to recommend another fluid exchange, but it has to be done right. The pan must be dropped and the filter cleaned or replaced, then the pan goes back up, the transmission is refilled, and then the fluid exchange machine hooked up. The reason it has to be done in this order is that the fluid exchange is done through the cooler lines. If the old transmission fluid is in the pan, then you are sucking the old fluid out one side and putting fresh in on the other. The problem is that the fresh is being dumped into the old so you are not exchanging the fluid, just diluting the old with the new. Even doing it the proper way isn’t 100% because not all the returning fluid goes through the cooler before returning to the pan, but it is much better than not dropping the pan. Once you do this, then just drain and refill the transmission every 30k miles, do not worry about a complete exchange. If you follow this practice, your ATF will stay fresh enough to help your transmission last the life of the vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Stoveguyy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Stoveguyy](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Stoveguyy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/16 "2013-01-04T23:04:24Z")
Well 100k is a fair amount of miles on a 3+ yr old car. But normally you do not see discolored trans fluid unless something is wrong. Did they change filter? Was any debris in pan? ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/17 "2013-01-04T23:12:17Z")
Based on the brown fluid that was in the car, that could be a sign of impending problems. The installation of the wrong fluid does not help things either. If a transmission problem surfaces in the future either one of the above could be looked at as the cause. And I’m no fan of the Bobis… site either. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/18 "2013-01-05T04:11:37Z")
Just look in the owners manual and see if it says to use Dex 3 with an additive. Don’t think so. They put the wrong stuff in, period. First step is to get the right stuff in, second step is to seek a refund. ---
**Author:** ![galant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/77aa72/32.png) [@galant](https://community.cartalk.com/u/galant)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/19 "2013-01-05T04:16:58Z")
Your car’s transmission is built by Aisin, who also makes Toyota transmissions. ATF IV is a specific ATF and only other alternatives are even more expensive than the ATF IV. This is the same fluid my 05 Camry uses and I have read all the forums up and down. There are multi-vehicle ATF’s that on the bottle would mention “compatible with ATF IV” and those are the only ones I will mess with, but again they are even more expensive. My local dealer has %15 off coupons too. Just buy 8-12 qts of the fluid and do a few drain and refills. Your transmission should have a handy drain plug with a hex bolt. Easier than an oil change and not worth the $$ of a new transmission. ---
**Author:** ![michaelscai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@michaelscai](https://community.cartalk.com/u/michaelscai)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498/20 "2013-01-05T04:34:10Z")
I would like to do the drain and fill myself, but I’m not sure if i can jack it up and have the car stand on a stand properly without falling on me, so I have other people do it. the car is running fine so far, shifts smooth no issues… so I will let it go for a while, yes it’s a gamble. I think I’m going to dispute the charge through my credit card company beause I doubt the quick lube place will budge a bit. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dexron-iii-friction-modifier-t-iv-transmission-fluid/76498.md?page=2)