# Dear Car Talk Philosophy Question: **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681 "2024-04-08T19:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/1 "2024-04-08T19:25:02Z")
Today’s question is “Is it ok to have leftover fasters after the job is finished?” In a similar vein, if every single part of a car has been replaced, is it still the same car? This question has been debated for ages. _The ship Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus] , for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their places, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same._ _— Plutarch, Life of Theseus 23.1_ > **[Ship of Theseus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus)** > > The Ship of Theseus is a thought experiment about whether an object is the same object after having had all of its original components replaced. > In Greek mythology, Theseus, mythical king and founder of the city Athens, rescued the children of Athens from King Minos after slaying the minotaur and then escaped onto a ship going to Delos. Each year, the Athenians would commemorate this by taking the ship on a pilgrimage to Delos to honour Apollo. A question was raised by ancient philosophers: Af... ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 7:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/2 "2024-04-08T19:33:37Z")
> [@George\_San\_Jose1](#): > > In a similar vein, if every single part of a car has been replaced, is it still the same car? This question has been debated for ages. Then it is time to let it drop. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/3 "2024-04-08T19:44:06Z")
> [@George\_San\_Jose1](#): > > Is it ok to have leftover fasters after the job is finished? When I was about 6 years old, I had a toy–Robert The Robot–that stopped working. Being a curious kid, I decided to take Robert apart in order to fix him. I actually got him working again, but after I had put him back together, I had a fastener (or two) from his “works” left over. My reasoning was that, if I had gotten him working again, then the fastener(s) weren’t really necessary. When my father asked me what had been wrong with Robert, my response was, “He had too many parts”. Yes, I had a sardonic sense of humor, even at the age of 6. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 8:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/4 "2024-04-08T20:07:19Z")
Not the same. Simply a copy of what it once was. Whether good or bad copy depends on the quality of the replacement. Of course replacing too many planks at one time means the ship would sink. ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/5 "2024-04-08T20:13:48Z")
I concur. A copy, rather than the original. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/6 "2024-04-08T20:26:06Z")
At the annual car show, I see vendors that sell fiberglass 32 ford bodies and new chassis. Looks the same but not the same a a Dearborn model. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/7 "2024-04-08T20:26:30Z")
For those who aren’t familiar with Robert The Robot, this is “him”. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/d/4/d4502faa82f65b645f2489b85435baf4f4209337.jpeg) He was powered by turning the crank on the hand-held device, and the power was transmitted to his “works” via a flexible drive shaft. Perhaps this was a GM engineer’s inspiration for the drive shaft of the original version of the Pontiac Tempest. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/6/a/6a48f3b7c89acc0394e4275593a48ae5d84c2fd8.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/8 "2024-04-08T20:29:56Z")
R Robot looks like a pretty cool toy. Was the included tool chest to repair the robot, or for the robot to do his robot-work? ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/9 "2024-04-08T21:58:04Z")
Another car-repair philosophy question: When re-installing a part you’ve just recently removed, and there are four ways to install it, but 3 are wrong, what % of the time do you install it all 3 wrong ways first? For me, I’d say nearly 100% … lol … ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/10 "2024-04-08T22:02:50Z")
> [@bing](#): > > I see vendors that sell fiberglass 32 ford bodies and new chassis. Brookville Roadster in Ohio sells steel 32 Ford bodies and chassis. if you have a serial number tag for a 32 Ford, it can make registration of the final product easier… but few would believe it was a real 32. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 11:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/11 "2024-04-08T23:01:30Z")
You can buy 100% new steel body’s for a few different older vehicles and build brand new old vehicles your way… and they don’t have the bad (door, fender, hood) gaps and rattles that you would pay so much to get rid of on old classics, and no rust to deal with, much less than a frame off build… > **[Store - Mustangs to Fear](https://mustangstofear.com/store-home/Steel-Bodies-p444909326)** > > browse by category ALL PARTS BY CATEGORY SPECIAL DEALS REPLACEMENT PARTS 1965 – 1966 MUSTANG PARTS 1967 – 1968 MUSTANG PARTS 1969 – 1970 MUSTANG PARTS 1967-1968 COUGAR PARTS 1969-1970 COUGAR PARTS STEEL BODIES ELECTRICAL / LIGHTING EXHAUST EXTERIOR... [https://realdealsteel.com/c-1105811-bodies-1967-69-camaro-firebird.html](https://realdealsteel.com/c-1105811-bodies-1967-69-camaro-firebird.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 11:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/12 "2024-04-08T23:11:04Z")
Old, valuable race cars are often nearly completely rebodied, re-framed and more and no one seems to mind too much. A wrecked $40 million Ferrari race car, if the restoration is properly done will hold its value. An example of this is the car known as the Ferrari Breadvan… a one off bodied 1961 250 SWB GTO. > **[Ferrari 250 GT SWB Breadvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_250_GT_SWB_Breadvan)** > > The Ferrari 250 GT SWB Breadvan is a one-off Ferrari made in 1962 from a 1961 Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta SWB, chassis number 2819 GT. It was built to compete against the new 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO at the 24 Hours of Le Mans and other FIA World Sportscar Championship races. > In 1962, the engineer Giotto Bizzarrini was hired by Count Giovanni Volpi, owner of the Scuderia Serenissima racing team, to upgrade a Ferrari 250 GT SWB so it would be competitive with the then-new Ferrari 250 GTO. Enzo Ferrari... This vintage racecar has been wrecked and repaired several times… The latest in 2022 below, > **[1-of-1, $14M Ferrari Breadvan stuffed into wall during race - Hagerty Media](https://www.hagerty.com/media/motorsports/ferrari-breadvan-crash-again/)** > > The beloved Ferrari Breadvan hit a tire wall at last weekend's Le Mans Classic. The damage is substantial, but we're hopeful it will be back. The car is still worth $44 million… ---
**Author:** ![Clueless33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dbc845/32.png) [@Clueless33](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Clueless33)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/13 "2024-04-09T02:48:37Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/original/3X/8/1/8141ae77918faad663140a64ed8bf8db0ad5bc68.jpeg) My mother had a ford cartina for her first car. Paid $30,000 JAD ( roughly $200USD ). It needed several parts to be functional but none of the parts could be sourced. It needed a pair of taillights. Headlamps. Seats. Starter. And many more. The person who worked on the car had to make huge cuts in the taillight area to convert it to something that could be sourced and fit. When the car was completed and road ready, we asked the same question as you did: “ Is this car still a ford cartina ?” Many people said it wasn’t and some said it was since it had the original engine and transmission. Source: picture was obtained from google. ---
**Author:** ![tcmichnorth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/tcmichnorth/32/25126_2.png) [@tcmichnorth](https://community.cartalk.com/u/tcmichnorth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 9:34am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/14 "2024-04-09T09:34:29Z")
Definitely not OK for extra parts left over. I had to look at a leaky radiator last weekend. Had to remove undercarriage panels and panels up top to get a visual. Dozens of pushpins and bolts. Had 2 pushpins left over from a hidden panel. Going to drive me nuts for weeks. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 12:19pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/15 "2024-04-09T12:19:30Z")
> [@Clueless33](#): > > Is this car still a ford cartina ? No, it might still have been a Ford C **o** rtina. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 12:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/16 "2024-04-09T12:23:07Z")
> [@George\_San\_Jose1](#): > > Was the included tool chest to repair the robot, or for the robot to do his robot-work? I don’t recall whether there really were any tools included. Whether I used the tools mentioned on the package, or if I dug into my father’s tool box, I don’t recall. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/17 "2024-04-09T15:22:13Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > might still have been a Ford C **o** rtina. With CUSTOM taillights! Your mom must have been the envy of all! I like Cortinas. That would a fun nostalgic driver ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/18 "2024-04-09T15:27:52Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > I like Cortinas When my brother had his R&R from Vietnam, he chose to do it in Honolulu, where he rendezvoused with his wife, for the honeymoon that they hadn’t had, prior to his deployment. Because they were on a tight budget, they chose the cheapest rental car, which was a Cortina. He said that, once the engine was started, it was a lot of fun to drive. The problem was that he had to summon a mechanic from Hertz to start the darn thing–every morning–as it would never start for him. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/19 "2024-04-09T15:36:42Z")
Amazing how a car built on an island had so much trouble starting in moist conditions! ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681/20 "2024-04-09T16:23:07Z")
After 52 years of marriage, I still tend to rent the cheapest car. I’m not saying there is a correlation or anything, just trying to not waste resources. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/dear-car-talk-philosophy-question/194681.md?page=2)