I’m going to say something just because . In a case such as the OP asked about I’d have them show me the part they broke . If it was all corroded or something I’d say what they’re offering is fair . If the part appeared fine other than where they broke it I’d expect them to foot the bill . Good mechanics & jacklegs both work at dealerships just like everywhere else & bad things can happen to good mechanics . If the part was defective to begin with the customer should pay , if not the shop should eat it .
2 Likes
Re: @Keith 's comment, Ball joints on a 2008
@TwinTurbo … I took the comment to mean that a ball joint suspension design on a newer vehicle is a little unexpected. Struts instead. But from what I can see Outbacks still use ball joints.
No need to guess tho, what did you mean Keith?
Probably one of the reasons I’m inclined to do as much of the work myself rather than relying on the dealership is the fact that I constantly deal with the “fix one thing, break another” aspect of warranty repair. Some obvious examples are rattling in the dash only to get the truck back with the hinge broken on the glove box hoping that I’d drive away with it like that. Also, had another case of a LBJ recall where the tech replaced the outer tie rods in ADDITION to the LBJs. Just how hard can you hit a tie rod end with a hammer to dislodge it from the LBJ assembly that it breaks and needs replacement?? Worse case was replacing a $15 rubber boot at the end of the intermediate steering column shaft that was torn and allowing the engine noise enter the cab area. Sounded like an exhaust leak until it was fixed. Problem was the intermediate shaft was replaced and the steering rack was leaking on the left side badly after the work was done. Should the steering column leak be my problem? Probably not, but how would I prove it? Thankfully, it was covered under the extended warranty. Once the warranty ended, all further work was only done by myself.
Edit: meant “steering rack leak”, not “steering column leak”.
fyi … See that little thing that looks like a pencil at the bottom of your post? If you click on that, you can go back and edit an existing post.
After looking at photographs of the steering knuckle and ball joint and imagining those parts welded together with rust it seems somewhat reasonable that in an effort to get the job done and beat the clock breaking the knuckle would be somewhat likely. It’s a shame if that is what happened but all too often that is the case. In my small shop it was understood that if ‘normal and proper’ techniques failed the mechanics were to call the boss and move on to other work orders until I could look into the situation. If the ball joint refused to come out of the knuckle while mounted on the car then further disassembly and using a shop press would have been my next effort and I would have no qualms billing the customer for the unexpected labor.
My mechanics enjoyed the freedom to walk away from what often seemed a no win for them and If somehow the ball joint fell loose for me the original mechanic would just return to finish the job and if I gave up the mechanic knew he would be paid for the additional labor. Large shops are unable to be so flexible and the mechanics are stressed to do the work by the book and be paid by the book regardless of the rust, etc. A ball joint press and a 4 pound sledge hammer might luckily get a rusty ball joint free but maybe not.
Heat wrenches come in very handy at times .
Unfortunately, due to the cyber security experts at my work this work laptop doesn’t allow for any of the features to be available below the comments as you suggested for editing or liking a post… Currently, I only own a workstation but find he laptop more convenient to use while I’m home on vacation.
I always feel for the mechanic who breaks something by accident or misdiagnoses a problem and has to put in extra time. I had a trusted mechanic have a wrench slip while changing a water pump and put a hole in the radiator. He took the radiator to a radiator shop and had it repaired. I tried to pay him for part of the repair cost or for some of his time but he wouldn’t hear of it. Another time, I had my Ford Maverick overheat 50 miles from home. I managed to get the Maverick to the Dodge dealer where I had purchased the Maverick 5 years earlier. The service department diagnosed the problem as a bad freeze plug in front of the transmission. They provided me with a gallon can of water in case I needed on the way home. When I took the car to my mechanic, he made the same diagnosis and pulled the transmission only to find the problem was a.leaking heater core dripping coolant over the torque converter. I wanted to pay the mechanic for part of his time to remove and replace the transmission, but this mechanic wouldn’t accept my offer.
If I had to go to a shop bacause I couldn’t do the work myself, I’d try to find a small reputable shop where you get to know the owner and mechanics and are willing to fix any screwups on their part for repeat business. I understand some good mechanics aren’t personable and don’t want to deal with the public, but I’m no idiot when it comes to car repair, so it’s not like they’re talking to a layman.
By necessity, I used to have to do as much of my own car repairs as I was able to handle. Time was always a factor as well. My time was valuable. As a faculty member at a state university, I either did research and published or I wouldn’t advance. I developed a healthy respect for not only my time, but the time of service personnel as well. I would find a reputable shop and establish a good working relationship with the business.
Some here recommended the book Shop Craft For the Soul. Which I’m currently reading. The current chapter, the author, working at a motorcycle repair shop, relates this story, apologies if I relate some details wrong: He’s fixing a customer’s motorcycle and discovers he’s unable to bleed the clutch hydraulics. So he rebuilds the clutch master. Clutch still won’t work. Next he rebuilds the slave. Now it works ok. Here’s the problem though. Reinstalling the slave he notices the reason the slave failed was b/c a nearby engine seal was leaking oil which he thinks was , over time, damaging the clutch slave seal. He tries to decide if it is worth it to fix that engine seal or not. The engine seal replacement requires a lot of labor. He puts everything back together, thinking the slave will work for some time in any event. Who cares if it needs to be redone later? The customer will return for another fix in a few years, and maybe the customer won’t even own the bike by then. ‘I might be doing the customer a favor’ he says to himself. After all the customer has a drivable bike, and the bill to this point is only $750.
Later in the day he takes everything apart and replaces that engine seal, deciding this sweeping it under the rug idea just isn’t right. The final bill with labor comes to $2300, but he knocked it down to $1500 b/c he feels a little sorry for the customer getting such an unexpected kick in the pants.
I guess this kind of situation comes up in shops all around the world. Perfection vs good enough, it’s always a compromise.
1 Like
Should just have consulted with the customer & proceeded from there .
On board with stuff happens, but really wondering if it was a steering knuckle. Because I am not sure what a bearing knuckle is.
Car Talk Lackey
Dealing with car dealers on repairs and warranty work
Well the ball joint goes between a control arm and the steering knuckle so it kinda narrows the field a little.
Depends on the customer. If you come out and show me the rusty, crumbled pile of junk I’m personally going to know you didn’t break it. That’s slightly unfair, because I’ve seen you post for years on here now and that helps me conclude that I can trust you - else, how do I know that you didn’t get some other rusty, crumbled pile of junk and claim you got it off of my car?
I have had mechanics, even at the dealership, try to convince me of BS like “your air filter needs replacement, look how dirty it is,” and then proceed to show me a rectangular filter when my car had a cylindrical one, so assuming a mechanic you don’t know might be lying isn’t entirely unjustified.
Someone who doesn’t know anything about cars might assume you broke it even if they believe the part you showed them really did come off of their car.
The things that would keep me from being a mechanic is that I have high ethical standards and tend to get royally peeved when people assume I don’t (even if they assume that because they’ve been screwed many times in the past by my profession), and I also have a low tolerance for dealing with unreasonably angry people.
If I had to spend my days trying to convince people that, no, I’m really not lying, I can see the vanes* in your brake rotor and it really does need replacement, and then listening to them yell at me because their muffler rusted out after I’d changed the oil and therefore I must have broken it, I’d wind up in a mental asylum. My hat is off to those of you that manage to do this for 40 years without killing someone.
Well . . . the brake piston caliper is literally crumbling away, because the truck sees extremely hard use, and the pistons are “phenolic” . . . aka plastic
Not only that, but when I removed the calipers to get at the brake pads, it was also clear that the piston boots were hard as a rock and also torn to shreds, presumably from hard use. This was also NOT visible until I had hung the calipers out of the way. This damage was not visible through the caliper inspection window. This truck is BIG and carries a lot of stuff. It’s 9 years old, FWIW
The brakes were not metal to metal, in case anybody’s wondering. The pads had several mm until the audible wear indicator, and the rotors were nowhere near discard thickness. Translation, the pistons were not overextended
I don’t know about anybody else, but I personally feel phenolic caliper pistons are BS . . . guaranteed trouble. It was shocking to see them on a class 5 truck. I might expect to see them on a Ford Focus, not a large commercial vehicle
In fact, I think the whole brake caliper design is BS on this vehicle, because it didn’t even last 10 years, without literally crumbling away. But I just work on them
I feel the bean counters prevailed, when this truck went into production, and the result was not good