# 'Crash test dummies are all male, and women are paying the price' **URL:** \ **Category:** Safety\ **Created:** [December 23, 2021, 5:07am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411 "2021-12-23T05:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/21 "2021-12-24T03:43:20Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > cars from the 90s and earlier generally did not have load limiters in the seat belts, so a heavier person wasn’t more likely to bottom out the restraint system and smash in to the dash and windshield. The load limiter or force limiting seatbelt does not release the occupant to strike the dash and windshield, it allows a limited amount of release. The pre-tensioner retracts the seatbelt 3", the force limiting belt releases 3", it’s a wash. ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 3:47am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/22 "2021-12-24T03:47:12Z")
> [@Nevada\_545](#): > > The pre-tensioner retracts the seatbelt 3", the force limiting belt releases 3", it’s a wash. Maybe in a Volvo. Kia Rio? No. Do you believe it’s possible that car makers have designed cars for crash tests and done little to design for other types of crashes? ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 4:16am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/23 "2021-12-24T04:16:40Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > I don’t have access to anything newer and it seems 1 in 100 people even know what a locking torque converter is. So what if they don’t know what a Locking Torque Converter is ? Big deal ! ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/24 "2021-12-24T04:30:22Z")
I think it would be absurd to find someone laying on the road wearing a broken seatbelt. If seatbelts were allowed to disconnect for heavy people, killing them, this would make headlines. ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 5:41am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/25 "2021-12-24T05:41:26Z")
The direction of this conversation is reminding me of a guy who used to be in my old car club. He was one of those “we didn’t land on the moon, and airplanes are dispensing mind control chemicals” conspiracy nutjobs. I remember once at a club camping trip my wife made the mistake of engaging him in debate (“never argue with a stupid person - they’ll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience”) and at one point he came out with the argument “well do any conspiracies exist? Because if any conspiracies exist, all of them do.” In general, if you find yourself at a party or on an internet forum busily insisting that you have special secret knowledge of a vast underground conspiracy that’s killing people, and somehow you have glommed onto that information where no one else has, you should probably get professionally evaluated. ---
**Author:** ![pyrolord314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6a8cbe/32.png) [@pyrolord314](https://community.cartalk.com/u/pyrolord314)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 1:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/26 "2021-12-24T13:09:53Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > > [@pyrolord314](#): > > > > I work in the ER of a major Trauma Center and we have several major highways with 55/65/75 MPH speed limits near us. This is definitely false. > > Can you elaborate? You’re in a position where you should be able to provide real world information about this topic too. Do you see “women paying the price” in the ER? You don’t notice that younger people are able to survive more severe crashes? The EMTs say that for young people, if they can live through the first hour, they generally pull though. Not completely, I don’t have access to all of the data (I’m not a doctor/PA/NP so I can’t browse charts at will without consequence). From what I’ve observed and directly been involved with (I’ve been working here 9.5 years now) we lose Trauma Alert patients at a far lower rate than we used to. Sure we still lose some (keep in mind Trauma Alert is activated for much more than just MVA, also GSW, Ped vs Auto, Stabbings, etc), but far fewer than we used to. I don’t know that we see a huge difference in survivability based on age (keep in mind that is going to be skewed by the fact that younger people are generally in better shape and can bounce back from injury easier, plus they typically aren’t on blood thinning medication too), but I also don’t know how many patients are DOA called by paramedics and don’t make it to us. In regards to age, we recently had a physician (older probably 50s) get rear ended on a major highway by a tractor trailer with major intrusion into his car (had to be cut out). His wife survived with minor bumps and bruises and major league soreness, but no broken bones. He survived with a broken leg, sprained shoulder (and of course bumps, bruises, and soreness). They were driving 2019 or 2020 Lexus RX 450h. My dad (in his 50s) was waiting to turn in their 2018 or 19 RAV4 Hybrid and was rear ended by an SUV (don’t remember the model) and pushed into oncoming traffic where he was hit in the front too. No airbag deployment, car was totaled, but no injuries for my dad or any of the other motorists. My wife years before I met her was in a really bad accident where she was rear-ended, knocked into oncoming traffic, and hit 2 or 3 more times (I forget exactly). She was driving an early 2000s era VW Bug. She came to my hospital (didn’t work there at the time) and didn’t need admitted. Hairline collar bone fracture, possible neck and mid spine fractures (thankfully no issues today), was stuck in a neck brace for a few months (the possible spinal fractures were later determined to be old healed fractures from when she slipped on concrete steps and fell a few years prior). Honestly, had she had that accident in any of our newer vehicles we have had since then (09 Focus, 12 Escape, 09 Camry, 05 Odyssey) I think she would have come through better. That said, it was better than if she would’ve been in my old 94 Saturn Sedan. She wouldn’t have walked away from that one (as much as I loved that old car). Can you elaborate on “Women paying the price” so I know exactly what I’m responding to? ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/27 "2021-12-24T14:27:07Z")
> [@shadowfax](#): > > if you find yourself at a party or on an internet forum busily insisting that you have special secret knowledge of a vast underground conspiracy that’s killing people, and somehow you have glommed onto that information where no one else has, you should probably get professionally evaluated. There was a cartoon in _The New Yorker_ a few months ago that said it all. Picture a guy sitting in front of his computer, and he calls out to his wife… _Honey, look at this! I found medical information on Facebook that **every** doctor and research scientist missed!_ 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/28 "2021-12-24T15:48:04Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > As for a sexist conspiracy… don’t you think the majority of male engineers working on safety systems would be thinking more of protecting their wives and daughters in a crash? And I suspect there are a good number of female engineers working for the automotive industry. ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/29 "2021-12-24T16:00:39Z")
> [@Nevada\_545](#): > > If seatbelts were allowed to disconnect for heavy people, killing them, this would make headlines. I’ll just ignore the straw man lie in the first part of your response. In certain model years of the Honda CR-V faulty rear seat belts get cut off by a sharp piece of metal on the seat in a high speed accident. That one never made the news. Now I can’t seem to find the article about it. The story goes that there was a crash and the two passengers seated in the rear died and the two in the front survived. A police officer thought it was strange and looked in to it and found that the seat belts in the rear had been severed. Now all the Honda CR-V search engine results have been poisoned by some class action lawsuit about seat belt latches. ---
**Author:** ![bcohen2010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bcohen2010](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bcohen2010)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/30 "2021-12-24T16:12:13Z")
Oh come on. Everyone knows that the safest place to be in an accident is “ejected from the vehicle”. That’s why modern seat belts are designed to disconnect in an accident, you know, to protect heavier occupants from the forces exerted by the belt on their body. Even though this would appear on its face to reduce safety for everyone, it’s actually well-developed science. (And if you believe that, I have a bridge for sale…) ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/31 "2021-12-24T16:17:00Z")
Yes, there are actually people who believe in that nonsense. I once worked with one of them, and after he expounded on those bizarre beliefs, I said that his theory _might_ work if the roadsides were completely covered with _Tempurpedic_ mattresses. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/32 "2021-12-24T16:17:41Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > I suspect there are a good number of female engineers working for the automotive industry There certainly are. In a higher percentage than in the general engineering industry. Still less than half. You can’t hire what isn’t in the workforce. ---
**Author:** ![RandomTroll](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/randomtroll/32/12184_2.png) [@RandomTroll](https://community.cartalk.com/u/RandomTroll)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/33 "2021-12-25T02:32:20Z")
Thanks. I didn’t know that. I had assumed that the _Washington Post_ had taken some responsibility for verifying the accuracy of even their opinion pieces. Susan Molinari is the former Congressperson who resigned to take a job in TV news, which gave me a low opinion of her seriousness. ---
**Author:** ![auto-owner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/50afbb/32.png) [@auto-owner](https://community.cartalk.com/u/auto-owner)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 3:24am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/34 "2021-12-25T03:24:30Z")
I think all crash testing is wasteful and dumb. We should just study the plentiful wrecks provided by our breathtaking ineptitude. Deliberately smashing up a nice new car is insane. ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 4:54am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/35 "2021-12-25T04:54:09Z")
> [@auto-owner](#): > > Deliberately smashing up a nice new car is insane. Using cars that are a couple of years old would be fine too. They could do small overlap on the passenger side and then do the side impact test on the driver side on the same car. Multiple collisions do happen in the real world. Then finish it off with a rear end impact which is currently not tested on any vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![shadowfax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/shadowfax/32/13026_2.png) [@shadowfax](https://community.cartalk.com/u/shadowfax)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 4:58am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/36 "2021-12-25T04:58:51Z")
Good grief… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/37 "2021-12-25T13:40:26Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > Using cars that are a couple of years old would be fine too. They tested those cars back when they were new so why test again. The idea behind the testing is to see how a new car keeps passengers safe. Then publish that data to inform the public and hopefully help the manufacturer make changes to improve safety. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/48514_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/38 "2021-12-25T14:05:26Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > They tested those cars back when they were new so why test again. You have to stop being logical. There’s no place for logic in this discussion. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TheWonderful90s](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/thewonderful90s/32/29584_2.png) [@TheWonderful90s](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TheWonderful90s)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/39 "2021-12-25T16:38:06Z")
The majority of car sales are used cars. When a new crash test is introduced, they should test older cars too. Finding a cheap 5 year old vehicle that has been rear ended is really easy. They could use this in the side impact test. It would save so much money compared to ruining a $40,000 vehicle. The recently introduced higher speed IIHS side impact test has only tested brand new vehicles so far. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411/40 "2021-12-25T17:31:55Z")
> [@TheWonderful90s](#): > > The recently introduced higher speed IIHS side impact test has only tested brand new vehicles so far. You can’t understand the reason to test new vehicles ? You really live in a strange world . [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/crash-test-dummies-are-all-male-and-women-are-paying-the-price/181411.md?page=3)