I have been searching the web for kits to convert my cars and harley over to a flex style system. Living in more rural area and in california where there are no stations. I have been wanting to build a still and make my own ethanol for fuel when possible to supplement my fuel. If i can find at the auction a flex fuel vehicle for a good price i see them there a lot.
I donāt believe ethanol is ācorrosiveā in the normal sense of the word. It is highly solvent, and in a different way than gasoline isā¦After all, this is 200 proof Vodka we are talking about. In your case, the trick will be getting a proper fuel mixture over the entire operating range of the engineā¦ Injector timing is critical and using an inline adapter to alter this timing accurately seems a little far fetchedā¦
I would investigate exactly how factory āFlex-Fuelā models differ from standard models. What ever the factory did, they did it for a reasonā¦
I found another couple of forums that are more in line with what you and I are looking for. check out the forums on these pages:
Fuel filters I have heard must be changed often I think about every few hundred miles in the first few thousand miles of converting and using e85. If you are converting a older vehicle the gas tank is getting a good cleaning out with its tank of moonshine and gas mix. Check your fuel lines often and keep good plugs in at all times. I do think a flex systems are the way to go its just finding the right ones at the right price. some use none and just let the standard injection programing work. It does work even better when a more gas is used in the blend more like 50/50 With the lack of a consistent supply of stations and the hardship of stilling enough ethanol at home. I am thinking of using the wifeās 01 stratus sedan to convert and run on some home made still brew. I am Applying for the permits with atf and searching the fleet auctions for some used flex vehicles. And looking for the best set of still plans and recipes for the cheapest and easiest mash to make. Also Looking for a older diesel truck to run svo. Cleaned used veggie oil.
I know this is a dead topic but I had to throw my two cents in. I think there is a lot of spin with e85 and I believe the truth is starting to come out now that gas is getting so expensive. I don?t have time to source my research, but I will let you know what I know and have experienced. First I have a 1988 chevy k1500 4x4 with a 350 v8 tbi. it had 210k miles on it when I switched to e85. e85 requires a richer mixture, just like alcohol burning race engines. its the same as running methanol (race fuel) except not as corrosive. I have been running e85 in this old truck for just over three years now with no problems. I have two chips. one is for gas and one is for e85. The e85 has a richer fuel map, and a more advanced timing curve. I am also running an aftermarket tbi, its a holly unit, they sell higher flowing units/injectors, so that seems to help some.
anyway,
known issues:
-Cold start issues (resolved with heaters, richer start (IE priming) or ether. (for the really cold days)
-Lower fuel mileage (can be compensated with building a performance motor, high compression, higher timing curves, etc and then staying off the pedal)
Known Spin:
-E85 more corrosive then e10.
Ethanol by nature is not corrosive. it only becomes corrosive when mixed with water and there for e10 to e85 shouldn?t make a difference. The thought is that if the cars parts can handle e10 then e85 shouldnt be an issue. But if you get water contamination, then there could be some issues, so never store a vehicle with gas in it.
E85 is actually less corrosive then gas, it just ends up being that some rubbers we used way back was not compatible with ethanol as well as exposed magnesium and aluminum. Since 1987 EPA required all manufacturers to have vehicles e10 compatible. so then with all that said, in theory any car after 1988 should have no corrosion issues with e85
I will leave it at that. In reality you don?t need anything special to run e85. all you have to do is trick the ECM into thinking nothing has changed. In theory, gas is 14.7:1 e85 is 9.76:1 for mixture, so if you can change something else to richen your mixture, (IE: change to fatter injectors or run higher pressure on your fuel system) then the ECM?s stock fuel map will still work fine and e85 shouldn?t be an issue. A lot of these kits are actually just modifying the pulse going to the injector and causing them to stay open longer. So in the end your ecm is still trying to maintain the correct oxygen ratio, and it shouldn?t have to compensate for e85 because its being fooled into thinking it is in control.
O.K. Rambling done, bye!
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I have a 91 CRX with a 94 civic engine (d series vtech e).
I bought a fuel conversion kit of the same type, in line ecu thing
When I install it,
-my engine runs rough and
-idles low, and
-wont rev past 3500 rpm, the engine (stumbles?)
My car at this point has gas in it. The conversion kit is supposed to work with gas or ethanol.
I was told and read that I should advance the timing,
so I jumpered the timing doodad, and moved the distibutor,
it sounded less rough, and some subtle clicks went away, but still stumbled or whatever at 3500 rpm, and definately not smooth (i can rev the engine over 6000 sounded beautiful)ā¦ whatās the deal???
I know these things basically add more fuel by opening the injectors longer, and advancing the timing is supposed to start burning the ethanol sooner, anyone have some feedback, or ideas on how to solve?
The consensus on this forum seems to be to err on the side of caution, and with a $20,000 vehicle at risk, Iād say theyāre giving sound advice. This subject has interested me for over a year now, and this thread is very old, so Iām still not sure which way to go. I was hoping perhaps that someone or someone(s) had tried more recent versions of the crossover kits and could comment on their impact on newer vehicles which are designed to be less affected by fuel chemistry.
Much of what the manufacturers of these devices seems to make sense. Of course, they have ulterior motives for making their devices seem like the best thing since sliced white bread, but much of their advertising spiel is hard to argue with.
So suffice it to say, Iām still considering it for my 2009 Hyundai Sonata which I intend to keep at least 3 more years, possibly more. Thereās not a thing wrong with itā¦ Everything down to the courtesy lights work just like the day I drove it off the dealerās lot.
This thread was started 8 years ago, for crying out loud.
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I would be concerned that a $300 kit would not contain adequate parts to make a safe, reliable conversion. That 30% reduction in fuel mileage means you need to pump 30% more fuel through your injectors. Are they big enough? Probably not, so the first full throttle blast to allow you to merge onto a busy highway causes a lean condition and burns a hole in a piston. Is the fuel pump capable of delivering enough fuel? Maybe, maybe not. What happens when you transition from a full tank of E85 back to E10? Your mixture is E50 maybe? How does this magical $300 unicorn handle transitions? An E85/E10 switch isnāt going to cut it. And what happens when your carās fuel system melts internally and destroys itself? The kit canāt possibly contain all the parts needed to revise it. $300 isnāt enough to cover this.
Iāve seen conversions to E85 on performance cars. Makes a dandy performance fuel. Revised fuel system, a % alcohol sensor and new ECU to revise the timing to optimize for use with E85 are all included. That is about $4000 retail worth of parts.
Would you change your mind about building a still if you knew it is illegal? You cannot distill spirits for any purpose without a license to do so. The ATF isnāt fooling around and will be actively looking for your still, just as they search for all stills. You might get a fine, or you might go to jail. If you still want to distill ethanol, at least you know the consequences if you are caught.
Neither devilstaco nor norcalbio have been on this website . ā¦ SINCE JULY 2008
Do NOT expect any responses from either of them . . . !
I know some of you guys see absolutely nothing wrong with reviving old discussions, and actually find them to be stimulating conversations
I merely point out youāll almost certainly get no replies from those 2 guys I mentioned, as I clicked on the user names and confirmed they have NOT been active on this site for the better part of a decade
Youāre better off talking to this ādavidpsrā guy, since heās obviously the only one currently asking for advice
I just signed up for access and didnāt know that this thread existed until I started one of my own and the system told me that a similar thread seemed very similar to the one that I started. I took that to mean that maybe I should have confined my messages to this thread. Iām still learning. My thread is somewhere out there, containing many of the same questions as in this thread. From this point on, Iāll confine my inquiries to the new thread. Sorry folks.
Itās just the way the system works . . .
Now that weāre on the subject . . .
What are your reasons for wanting to run E85 in your car?
Considering E85ās lower price, less power AND less fuel economy, do your calculations suggest itās worth using the fuel?
Is E85 easier to get in your area, versus regular gasoline, which I assume might be E10?
I would suggest a Honda specific forum to find someone(s) who have tried this or a similar E85 conversion. I donāt think you will find anyone here who has tried this conversion. Your fuel filter, gaskets, and other fuel system components will only get clogged/gunked up as they dissolve. Why risk destroying a desirable, fun little Honda for no potential gain?
Once again I forgot to check the original date.
To be honest, a local gasoline dealer started prominently displaying the price of E85 and itās about $1/gallon less than regular unleaded. Thatās what prompted me to start investigating. But Iāve decided that the tradeoff just is not worth it. I love my little Hyundai, and Iād hate myself if I did something that made it self-destruct.
I might mention something . . .
Having worked at a dealer for several years, I know for a fact that the E85 vehicles use different fuel system components, and those parts tend to be more expensive
So if for a given model year, both regular and E85 versions of the same vehicle were sold, I wouldnāt expect the regular model to hold up very well, in the long run, if E85 fuel were used
The cost per gallon can attract people. In 2008 after fuel prices rose, twice a month I saw a non flex fuel car come in with E85 in the tank. If the fuel receipt was on the front seat it shortened the diagnostic procedure. To turn off the check engine light the tank must be drained so I drained their tank into mine. Twice a month I got a free tank of inferior fuel.
I canāt answer your questions BUT I can relate something about a local guy who works with E85 and works wonders with it.
HOWEVER, he is performance oriented out the wazoo and has the backing of Ford Motor Company. Thereās not a single issue that canāt be sorted out given enough time, parts, and cash.
He lives for E85 and nothing ends up as a stick it on and go.
You are 100% correct. Trying to convert a gasoline vehicle to alcohol with $300 of computer software is beyond insane. Why would anyone want to risk turning their perfectly good vehicle into scrap for no appreciable (or more likely zero) gain?