Consumer Reports top 10 vehicles

General Discussion
41

CR tests new cars and comments on how well they perform. They rated the new 1986 Ford Taurus “the best American car we’ve ever tested”. I agree it was fun to drive and a very well packaged vehicle. But soon many problems reared their ugly heads, and it quickly sunk to the bottom of the reliability heap.

In one year I counted 151 service bulletins on this car compared to just 4 for Lexus. These bulletins deal with problems that crop up due to shoddy design or manufacturing and servicing defects. Ford slowly improved the car but it was never better than just average and the advanced design was quickly overtaken by others.

42

Recent comments directed at me:

From: @MikeInNH:
“Based on simple statistics (I know that Math isn’t a strong point of yours CCA)…”

From: @"Docnick “I’m assuming from this you are ready to buy your wife a Fiat 500 and a Fisher Paykel dishwasher.”

Oh, how wrong you guys are…
Math is a strong suit of mine. I would never buy anything from Fiat, Nor from Fisher Paykel, and leave my wife out of this!

These are cheap shots, not true, but I guess that’s all you have. It makes me doubt any serious opinions you put forth.

I don’t mind debating, but when you are out of anything worthwhile to say and attack somebody personally, that’s tacky! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

I’m a pretty sharp guy. My mom & dad didn’t raise any dummies.

We have discussed this before. The difference in perceived reliability between a CR High rated vehicle and a Low rated vehicle is extremely small (and that’s according to CR). Take the time to read what the publishers have to say about it and yes, it contains math! And yes, I get it.
CSA

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43

I would. I like Fiats. They definitely have an Italian flavor about them. But I definitely wouldn’t buy a Fiat for a reliable daily driver, just as a toy.

Having said that, the new Fiat 124 roadster, a modern version of my dad’s old 124 Spyder (which I loved driving) is actually a Mazda Miata in drag. It should be as reliable as the Miata. Of course I can no longer get into a Miata, but that’s another story. :joy:

44

If you say so. Based on many past conversations you really lack deductive reasoning to be good at math.

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45

@the_same_mountainbike

When I managed a Body Shop a guy dropped off a Fiat X-19 for an all-over paint job. It had some rust so we quoted the job very high. The guy didn’t mind. He loved that thing.

The more we looked at the car the more rust we found. Upon close examination we discovered that the windshield frame was actually rusted out! It wasn’t very old, but the whole car was junk. We told him we couldn’t take his money and please come get the car.

That car put a bad taste in my mouth for Fiats that no Fiats have been able remove.

I don’t even care for Italian food.
CSA

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46

Yup, that’s a Fiat!! :smile:

I test drove a new X1/9 back in the day. It was a blast. 40mph felt like 80mph. The door handle, made apparently from cast “white metal” (not much better than slag) broke off in my hand. The test drive was fun, but there’s no way I’d pay hard-earned money for one. It was the cheesiest thing I’ve ever driven.

My dad actually had two Fiats, a 124 Spyder and later a tiny sedan, also a 124 I think.
The two cars were very different, the Spyder being worlds better than the sedan… but they both rusted badly.

It’s good to see Fiat back in the U.S., but if their current offering is the best they can do I doubt they’ll be here in ten years. “Cute” does well when combined with “really affordable”, but theirs is only cute.

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47

Well we leased a 2015 kia optima, glad tosee it is in the ratings, but the GDI would concern me if I was to be a long time owner. Course the fact the car was rear ended at a stoplight 2 months $2300 in repairs makes worry less at turn in time, no penalty so I am told.

48

A colleague had a Fiat 124 Coupe

He neglected it, and the driveshaft let go, while he was on the freeway. Amazingly enough, he had been complaining about ominous noises and vibrations for weeks, but chose to ignore it

Well, that was the end of that

Later on, he had an older Benz, which he also neglected. He obviously didn’t have that long, either, before disaster struck

He was initially a mechanic, and wasn’t really making it

He got the idea, that he would make more money working for a tool repair shop, fixing power tools. I think he let himself get talked into it, by the owner of the shop.

So he left the dealership, and sold me his Snap On toolbox, figuring he would never need it again

A few years passed, and the snap on vendor offered me more in trade for that box, than I paid for it. Considerably more. So I traded it in, and bought a much bigger box. I paid that bigger box off in one year’s time. It kind of hurt financially for a time, but I was glad to be out from under that debt

A few more years passed, and my colleague showed back up, wanting to turn wrenches. He asked if I would sell him his old box back. I told him he was out of luck. So he became a service writer. And that didn’t work out. Then he became a warranty guy, at the same place. Then all of the mechanics . . . myself included . . . took a dislike to the guy, because he was constantly screwing us over. We were yelling at his face, calling him on his mistakes and/or dirty tricks

Last I heard, he still had a champagne taste, on a beer budget. yup, he still was driving old european cars, neglecting them, and it always ended in disaster. We told him to just buy a cheap used Camry or Accord, and maintain it well. But he figured he was better than that :laughing:

49

There’s some good geezer perspective here. re; geezers spending money, any of you other geezers notice retail stores make it hard to do just that sometimes? I was looking at blue-ray players the other day, and the store had 6 different models on the shelves. Previous customers had them all mixed up I guess, so I couldn’t tell which price went with which model. I asked the staff there to help me sort that out. The first young staff fellow – maybe 20 or so – simply had no interest in spending time on this. He just walked away. Eventually I found a staff guy there who was willing to at least cough up some info about what happens if I buy it today, and it goes on sale next week. Can I return & get the sale price then? He explained some complicated procedure that seemed impossible to actually do, so I ask: “why is it done like that” ? And he says it is to make it so difficult that no customer actually bothers. And if a customer does try it, the staff there won’t like it.

50

Well, at least the second guy actually tried to give you some information, even if it perhaps wasn’t to your liking

The first guy won’t last long . . . if you ignore a potential customer, how’re you supposed to make a sale?!

51

I don’t know that this would specifically be a “geezer” perspective; I agree with you, but I’m not a geezer yet (or maybe I am and don’t realize it…)

A couple of perspectives on retail shopping today. As a consumer, situations like this is why I consider Amazon or other on-line storefronts as a purchasing option; I get the same level of service, so why bother spending time and gas and frustration to go to the store. I also don’t get why other consumers expect good service from stores that pay minimum wage or barely above minimum wage and little or no benefits to their sales associates. Service is part of what you’re paying for - if you want the lowest price, expect the lowest level of service. If you’re going to need help, then go somewhere else.

One comment on the second guy you who gave the reason behind the complicated procedure. I love when an associate is brutally honest about these procedures; it’s refreshing. I wish I could buy that guy a cup of coffee for his honesty.

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52

I don’t buy much at Best Buy because of their return policy. They will have a 15% “Restocking Charge” if you return the item. This is a pure ripoff; Costco will return the item no questions asked as long as you have the receipt. For electronics that’s 90 days, I believe. The reason for this, I’m told is that TV buyers would use a set for 6 months and then get their money back and buy a better set at the same price or the same thing at a lower price.

We have never had a problem returning anything at Costco, and that includes some foods that had an off-flavor.

53

Yup!
They have the best return policy of any retailer with which I am familiar.

54

You and me both. That thing is not small.

But then I also think calling the Civic a small car is a stretch.

Ever since they bought Consumerist and called it their web portal, I’ve been suspicious of them. That site is the National Enquirer of consumer-focused journalism. They’ll exaggerate, embellish, and flat out lie if they think it will draw eyeballs to their site. Not something CR should be putting its name on if it’s still serious about unbiased, trustworthy work.

55

@Triedaq - Like you, I plan on sticking around for a while, however the cold stark reality is that a 30 year old consumer is likely to consume products (such as magazine subscriptions) for a MUCH longer time than you or I. Most businesses would love a loyal YOUNG customer over a loyal OLD customer. I don’t like it but, statistically speaking, it is a winning strategy.

56

I am likely in the minority here but I am suspicious of buying products from retailers who are too generous with their returns policy. Returned goods aren’t sent back to the manufacturer for free replacement so the retailer is reboxing returns and selling them as new.

But like so many issues here age has a great deal of influence on our expectations when we shop. There has been a drastic decline in the level of service at retailers in recent decades and it is uniformly poor from the floor clerk to the manager. I may drive past 4 McParts stores to shop at a new NAPA store even when there is a silght increase in price because the NAPA store has found a 40+ year old man who is knowledgeable, willing and able to take care of customers. The McParts stores that I will pass have lost their more knowledgeable countermen and women, replacing them with keyboard commandos who seem to be annoyed if they must get off their elbows and get a part off the shelf to compare it to the old part. I can compare prices on web sites and if NAPA’s is reasonable they’ll be my first stop for a while.

And is Wal-Mart on the decline due to poor customer service. The local Sam’s Store couldn’t cut prices low enough for me to shop there. The Philadelphia Parking impound lot has friendlier counter help.

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57

Yes. I consider it a modern version of the Ranchero and El Camino.

58

I don’t see how you can reach that conclusion.

59

@bloody_knuckles You are probably correct about young consumers bringing more revenue to businesses. I am embarrassed every week when we celebrate “National Garbage Day” in our neighborhood. All my younger neighbors roll out at least two garbage totes to the street. We barely half fill one tote. I roll our one tote out very late on National Garbage Day evening when nobody will see me. The next morning I zip out and roll the tote back hoping no one will notice. I don’t want others to know that I am not supporting our American way of life by being a weak consumer.
A couple of years ago, Consumer Reports featured an article titled “Should You Repair or Replace?”. On our appliances, we have doubled or even tripled the point where CR said I should replace the item. For example, I just spent $300 on having a bearing replaced in our 24 year old Maytag washer. One reason I did it was that Mrs. Triedaq hates to go shopping and I would have to drag her to go shopping for a new machine. Secondly, the repairman showed up the next day after I called his business, had the parts on the truck and repaired the machine in my house in two hours. I know the new machines save energy, but I can purchase a lot of energy for the difference in cost between repairing my old machine and buying a new one.
I drove the same 1978 Oldsmobile for 33 years. To get back to the topic of manual chokes, I wish that Oldsmobile would have had one. We lived about 2 miles from our work. The Oldsmobile ran great if the temperature was under 30 degrees or over 45 degrees. However, between 30 and 45 degrees the automatic choke would pull off too quickly after the first half mile and the engine would hesitate on acceleration for half a mile and then be fine. If the temperature was below 30 or above 45 I didn’t have this problem. Had the car been equipped with a manual choke, I could have left the choke partially on in this temperature range.

60

Yes, I still have the CR table that shows when you “should” replace something. Silly figures indeed! We get 20 years or so out of washer, dryer, fridges and lawnmowers. Our first microwave lasted 22 years.

Our CRT TVs became obsolete and we gave them to the Goodwill charity stores.

Our local waste collection is weekly for garbage and also for recyclables. Each has a large bin that is picked up by a truck with large arms, tipped and put back gently on the street. Our garbage bin is typically 1/3 to 1/2 full while the recycle bin only goes out every 3 weeks, since we flatten all the cardboard and plastic. In the summer we might fill the garbage bin with some garden waste that cannot be composted or recycled.

The only time of the year the recycle bin might be full in a week is after Christmas to accommodate all the wrappings and boxes.