I don’t like debt … I need to have a Big stash to fall back on… and I refuse to pay interest on anything… when we bought our Farmhouse with acrage, got a loan for 14 yrs… paid it off in 7… never paid interest on a credit card yet… I make about $500 off of my credit cards every year. My husband prefers older vehicles as he can work on them better too.
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@OverRunWithSons_162328 - while I understand your frustration I don’t understand who would enforce your rule to report issues. The government? The last think I’d want them doing.
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+1
The probability of legislation to force private businesses (dealerships and mechanics’ shops) to report information to another private business (Car Fax) is highly unlikely–as it should be. And, even if that type of legislation was to come to pass…
Who is going to monitor Car Fax in order to enforce compliance?
Does the OP envision a new Federal Agency for this purpose?
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Tom and Ray Magliozzi wrote and published a book series under the title Click and Clack Talk Cars. They were very short books, almost pamphlets really, and if the one entitled How to Buy a Great Used Car: Secrets Only Your Mechanic Knows was still available in print, I’d recommend it you and for people in your position.
I actually have a copy of the full set of three books, and if I knew I could share a scanned copy with you without getting into trouble, I would, but something tells me someone from Car Talk’s Shameless Commerce Division wouldn’t be happy about it, even though the books appear to no longer be for sale.
The Reader’s Digest condensed version of the book is this:
Any used car you’re considering buying needs to be thoroughly inspected by your mechanic before you sign anything. This can be a counter-cultural thing to pull off, particularly since the recommendation is for you (the buyer) to spend $100-200 of your own money to have the car inspected. Cheapskates like me balk at such an idea, but there really is no alternative. As you’ve seen, you can’t rely on vehicle activity reports, whether they come from Carfax or anyone else, you can’t rely on the manufacturer’s “certified pre-owned” promise that they ensured the car meets their “high standards,” and you certainly can’t rely on any assurances from the salesperson or dealership that is selling you the car. The only way to avoid the pitfalls of conflict of interest is to pay your own money to an independent mechanic who is not in any way associated with the entity that is selling you the car, whether it’s a private sale or you’re buying from a dealership.
One thing I will offer you is the checklist Tom and Ray published in their book, because the book mentions it’s okay to make copies of it in order to use it when you’re getting the vehicle inspected. Here it is:
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The bulk of laws like this one would be don’t rely on criminal enforcement. The remedies often offered are through civil litigation, but having the law on the books makes the civil litigation possible.
As an example, look at laws that protect tenants from landlord abuses. They’re on the books, but they don’t require criminal enforcement, just remuneration for the wronged party.
…and this line of thinking is something I just don’t understand. When someone says, “that ought to be illegal,” the knee jerk reaction seems to be “how do you want the police to enforce that?” when police enforcement for these kinds of regulations is very rare to begin with. You don’t have to make something a criminal infraction in order to make it illegal.
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Might be able to in a few states, but many states this would be almost impossible. I’m all for it, but not likely to happen.
I do not agree that dealers/shops/whatever should be “forced” to comply with CF or anything else. Where does “force”: end? When the Feds mandate that a dealer rebuild a 20 year old car from stem to stern?
CF does bury a disclaimer in small print. Cut and pasted below.
CARFAX Vehicle History products and services are based only on information supplied to CARFAX. CARFAX does not have the complete history of every vehicle. Use the CARFAX search as one important tool, along with a vehicle inspection and test drive, to make a better decision about your next used car.
As I mentioned previously, many people assume that because a car has a certain badge on the back they blindly assume it will be perfect; especially in regards to a used vehicle. Once a new car is sold it becomes a used car the same day. From my experience Honda (to name one) has their share of problems also.
The lead Honda tech at a multi-line dealer where I worked and handled the SAABs along with VW and Honda used to rip SAAB unmercifully as being rolling junk. Most of the work I did was routine maintenance, brakes, belts, clutches, and so on., I pointed out to him that whose Civic is on the rack right now? Mine he admits. Getting a replacement cylinder head to match the 2 dozen failed cylinder heads stacked up out back.
Wished I had a dollar for every “But it’s a (fill in the blank)! Why is this happening?” comment I’ve ever heard.
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I don’t think that is what was suggested. I think what was suggested is that certain things should be required to be reported to the database that Carfax and other companies use, not to Carfax itself.
That is a “slippery slope” fallacy, and nobody actually suggested there be criminal enforcement of such a law. It could be a matter of civil litigation, like a lot of laws on the books.
I think that is advice we can all agree on.
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I have had two experiences with two reputable car dealers, one a franchised Dodge dealer and the other a used car agency that had been a family business for almost 50 years. In each case, I had an old car to trade in. In both cases, the dealers gave me a better deal if I didn’t trade in my old car. I would have had to pay more if I traded in my old car. Reputable dealers don’t want junk. They have reputations to protect. I put more trust in my ability to immediately reject a potential disaster of a car and the good sense to pay a mechanic to check over my final selection. I can’t see that a Carfax report means much. I am not really concerned if the car I am considering has had its engine replaced, as long as the engine presently in the car runs well and doesn’t burn oil.
Everyone seems to want instant information that guarantees that they are buying a perfect used car. There is no complete information for this. Companies make fortunes selling warranties to people who want to be protected from everything.
A Carfax report can show what might be called 'Red Flags '. Such as several owners in a short time or going through several auctions that indicate that maybe this was a problem vehicle
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I would oppose any government regulation about this. Just because some company starts gathering data is no justification for the government to get involved.
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Think about the potential impact to the used car market. Imagine if you could be held liable for non-disclosure of repairs, whether intentional or not. What repairs warrant disclosure? Where do you draw the line? And does this apply to everybody? You think used cars are expensive now- people often opt to trade in, donate or junk used cars rather than deal with the current issues selling used cars, imagine if this kind of thing comes to pass…
There also needs to be a balance as to what information is gleaned and what isn’t. We still need to respect the privacy of our customers. I’m a shop manager and we don’t report to Carfax. We can’t operate assuming that every repair job should be public info just because one day someone might sell their car. More to the point, I don’t believe that it’s anyone else’s business that Mrs. Jones’ car had a brake job at 55,000 miles or that Mr. Smith replaced a transmission in his truck at 122,000 miles.
If the car owner feels that a properly maintained and repaired car is worth more than a car of unknown history, then that owner will surely keep records. Relying on a disinterested third party to provide useful history has its limits.
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I just read this earlier https://www.atfcu.org/limitations-with-vehicle-history-reports.htm
“If the paperwork was never submitted to the State’s DMV, the title will never be changed and Carfax will never know. For example, State Farm was sued for not reporting 32,000 to 40,000 “totaled” vehicles to the State’s DMV as totaled. Since the titles were never changed, these totaled vehicles were patched together and re-sold to the public with the original “clean” title and a “clean” Carfax report. State Farm was found guilty and agreed to pay $40 million in fines. Automotive experts estimate State Farm made between $60 to $80 million buy not reporting these vehicles to the DMV. This is an easy way to achieve high profit margins and this is not an isolated incident.”
Most of the vehicles we have purchased over the years… we bought like an hour away from home… so getting our local mechanic to look at it 1st would be very difficult… in 30 yrs… I would say we got 2 lemons… the rest have been good buys. A little worried this may be a lemon… Time will tell.
I like that check list … thank you!
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I kinda agree with you. I’d like a regulation of full disclosure of what exactly companies like CarFax is gathering. It’s not the easiest info to find out.
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It’s not that they’re collecting data, the problem is when they start selling the data and deliberately cultivating the myth that buying their data provides piece of mind.
It’s about the fact that their advertising contradicts their disclaimer. It’s about lying.
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The one car I traded in I didn’t volunteer anything about issues I knew it had, figuring the dealer had their criteria for evaluating a trade in vehicle. I’d first gotten written offers from two other places after researching the going value range for the car. And I negotiated the price on the replacement new car separate from trade in. Only after I had in writing the contract to buy did I offer to let the dealer buy my existing car as a trade in. They offered a low ball price and I said no. They countered with asking what I’d accept and I quoted a price a bit above the best written offer I already had. The dealer tried to get me to accept less, to buy every over-priced worthless extended warranty, to buy all sorts of pricey add-ons, and to finance the purchase of the new car. In the end I got the new car I wanted for a bit less than the going rate in this area and traded the old car in for a bit more than the going rate. A lot of how I achieved that was thanks to some of what I’ve learned reading here in the forum over the years.
When I gave my twenty year old Oldsmobile to my nephew I gave him the complete service file on the car, all twenty years worth thick folder full, and also both told him and wrote down everything I knew needed service or should be checked on it such as needing new tires and fuel pump. But I was gifting the car to him to help him out of a tough situation he was in through no fault of his own and wanted to keep him safe.
I needed to unload my parents’ car immediately after my dad died. It wasn’t safe to drive (either a cracked ball joint or steering knuckle, forget which now) and it was worn out at twenty-four years and somewhere around 240k miles. I sold it for a song to a kid who wanted a beater to learn basic car mechanics working on. But since I knew the car couldn’t pass either safety or emissions inspection and the kid was only seventeen the bill of sale included a full list disclosing everything I knew was wrong with the car and a disclaimer there might be more problems I didn’t know about. Then I required the kid to bring one of his parents to counter sign his purchase of the car. But I kept the service file for tax purposes and privacy and shredded it afterwards.
So I suppose I’m not average in how I’ve disposed of cars just as I’m not in how I have gone about buying cars.
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Thank you all for your replies… what Car Fax does or doesn’t do… I no longer care, I learned a lesson about how Worthless CarFax is… and that’s good! Sounds like AutoCheck is a better tool for Used car salesman… in my research.
Even if a Mechanic looked at this Pilot we bought … he wouldn’t have known about the Reman Engine put in 2 yrs before anyway… it is what it is… I am done with this subject… I did post another topic asking if anyone here has had experiences with a “Remanufactured Engine”… just to gleam others experiences.
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Awesome! 
I love that story! They probably thought that they’d roll right over you with their brilliant sales tactics. I’d bet when you left, they probably were thinking, “What the he _ _ just happened here?” 
It probably triggered a department meeting.
As a “regular” here, you’ve done what most of us have done and that is to take an active interest in learning about cars and what makes them tick (err… purr) and how to save lots of money on car purchasing and repairing and maintaining them.
People who remain “ignorant” (not meant in a derogatory sense) about these things will spend more on vehicles and have more problems with them throughout a lifetime, in my opinion, and miss out on some fun, like the fun you had with a persistent sales department at a dealership.
I’m sure most of us here don’t just learn about cars, but are inquisitive and hungry for learning practically everything we encounter.
Bravo! I nominate you for an honorary Doctor in Car Talk Community Degree! You’ve earned your automotive stethoscope 
!
CSA
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Trust, but verify. – Ronald Reagan
Some vehicle history reporting issues I’ve encountered:
In 2007, girlfriend bought a 1998 Mitsu Eclipse. The seller bragged about the clean CarFax (red flag 1) and the brand new windshield (red flag 2). I got to meet the car a month later and pointed out that the front clip had been repainted and both air bags were empty and glued shut.
2016, I went to test drive a 2011 Ford F250, Fx4, diesel, 119k miles listed at $16,500 (red flag 1 book value is over $24k). Dealer bragged about the clean AutoCheck report (not CarFax) (red flag 2). Dealer apologized about his mechanic putting in new batteries and not replacing the tiedowns. (Red flag 3).
During the test drive I lifted the edge of the carpet and saw way too much caked dust. Cycled through the computer with the dashboard and my OBD2 reader. Dashboard reported 119k miles, ECU reported 119k miles, TCU reported 56k miles, dashboard “MyKey” reported 186k miles (MyKey is a Ford thing to restrict teen or fleet drivers, admin keys do not report separate miles).
With all that, I popped the hood. The driver side valve cover barcode said “Chassis” and the barcode lookup showed a 2012 engine manufactured for a F450/550.
If you are playing the home game, the truck had more than 200k miles on the body, probably in a flood, and a motor and transmission from different donors. I ended the test drive and bought the truck for $13k.
Trust. But verify.
Either become an expert on the car you want BEFORE you buy it to verify the CarFax.
Or tell the seller to shove that CarFax in his pipe and smoke it, and then trust your mechanic.
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