Car-free in America?

I don’t see it happening but I also don’t see it necessary. The problem is not vehicles but in the way we abuse the privilege of driving. What I mean is making 4 trips to Walmart in a day, etc, etc.

Actually I remember when this was possible. In my hometown of STL Mo. there were several neighbors who walked everywhere and took the bus. But you must remember there were grocery stores, bakeries, department stores, butcher stores, barbers shops and schools all in walking distance. Big stores has chased out all the mom & pop stores so that makes hardly anything to be of walking distance.

As far as our society being car free, we don’t need to be…and while I will never own one, there is nothing wrong with SUV’s as long as it fits the needs of a particular family.

I am being retrained and the V.R division of my states Department of Economic Security helps me with some expenses. I live about 12 miles and 25 minutes from the college and the state wanted me to drive my car to the Park and Ride (about 10 miles further than the college) then they would pay for a bus pass to get back to the college (with 2 transfers). This plan turned 50 min of commuting into 4hrs on the bus. I appealed and they provide me with gas money to drive to class. If I lived in the city I would have no problem with the bus (I think using a bike would kill me, there is a big hill to get over and into town, very popular with the bike crowd).

Commutes of 30 or 40 miles are not common

You’re right…The average commute for people in NE outside of the 128 belt is 20 miles…That’s still way to far to ride a bike to work and from work.

The average commute is about 15 miles, but note figure 1 and where it mentions that over two thirds of commuters have commutes shorter than 15 miles-- this means a very small segment of the community has very long commutes that bring the average up. 29% of the population is in the 0-5 mile commute range, which is definitely bikeable and another 22% are within 10 miles, which I would say depending on the roads/trails is also usually doable. Even assuming some of those people are too infirm or have insurmountable logistical obstacles, that’s still a very big chunk of the population that likely has the ability to at least occasionally bicycle commute.

Talk about a totally skewed statistic. I take it you work in politics…
Of course most people have less then a 15 mile commute…they LIVE IN CITIES…GEEZ…We’re not talking about people who live in cities are we…The whole discussion is about people in the burbs…

But claiming that alternative transportation is only for dense urban areas is simply not true.

And you’ve yet to show me ONE viable alternative transportation…JUST ONE…In order for it to be viable…it must be viable to the majority…not just a very very small minority.

Possibly…but this is NH…predominately a Conservative Republican state…

It depends on how urban an area you are in. In Europe, everything is so compact and rail inbetween towns is so good, you can get along without one. Same thing in large cities like DC, if you don’t go out of town. Once you need to get out of the heavy urban areas, its pretty hard to do it without a car and too expensive to cover all the areas with buses or trains. For those on the east and west coast, just take a trip inland to like Nebraska and figure out how to do it without a car or horse.

Talk about a totally skewed statistic. I take it you work in politics…
Of course most people have less then a 15 mile commute…they LIVE IN CITIES…GEEZ…We’re not talking about people who live in cities are we…The whole discussion is about people in the burbs…

First off, oops, I only linked to the graph, not the whole study. Here it is: http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/entire.html

For one 81% of commuters are private cars only, and that missing 19% doesn’t include urban dwellers who do much longer commutes on trains, etc.

Secondly, I suggest you study up on changing commuter patterns over the last few decades. The number of people who both live and work in urban centers is pretty small because many of the high-paying jobs have migrated to the suburbs-- in cities with vital urban cores like San Francisco, Seattle, LA and many others there’s just as many people who live in the cities and commute to the suburbs and nowadays a more typical commute is going from one suburb to another. This is also true in rust-belt cities with deteriorating urban cores where poor people by and large commute to service jobs in the suburbs (also usually long trips on public transit). Intra-suburb commuting is also far more common than intra-urban commuting. Here’s a boring article all about it in southern California, but these trends are spreading all over the country: http://www.newgeography.com/content/0065-commuting-patterns-multi-centered-urban-settings-the-case-southern-california

The general trend across the country is that people who still do a usual live-in the ‘burbs, work in the city commutes’ commutes are getting longer, but most people don’t do that any more and average commutes have been going down a lot. And that is why most peoples’ commutes are less than 10 miles-- I’ll bet by the 2010 census they’ll be even shorter. I would contend that a minimal investment in improving bike infrastructure in these smaller cities (such as building the pedestrian bridge in your town),which is where most commutes are between or within these days, has a much greater potential to economically reduce car miles than investment in expensive mass transit systems. Especially in suburbs that have existing turn-of-the-last century interurban train right-of-ways which make superb high-speed bike paths.

The trouble is that in urban areas with congestion, people are more likely to use mass transit when it’s available, but in the suburbs its more of a cultural challenge convincing people that cycling is a viable alternative. I think our conversation here is a bit of a microcosm of those issues, I think its a very American attitude to want a one-size-fits-all ready-for-everything solution as opposed to willing to be adaptive to conditions. I think it’s the same attitude that leads people to own big SUV’s as their only cars because it MIGHT snow 10 feet or they MIGHT need to tow a boat, nevermind that neither of these two things happens with great frequency and alternatives exist when they do. So it MIGHT rain or you might need to carry some groceries or, not to harp on it, but your kid MIGHT be sick some day. Does the fact that these contingencies may happen exclude cycling entirely?

In order for it to be viable…it must be viable to the majority…not just a very very small minority.

I disagree. The way I figure it with my “fuzzy” numbers is that you could probably get maybe 30-40% or so of people to occasionally supplement their commutes with cycling or other readily available, but less “convenient” alternatives (carpooling?), with maybe 10-15% doing it more often then not-- that would not be an insignificant reduction in car use and it could be achieved with minimal government spending-- I think a much greater reduction that is possible by sending more dollars towards urban centers. If nothing else, wouldn’t it be nice if people’s commuting fuel use went down in the summer so gas prices didn’t spike during the travel season?

Also, I think most people have never actually ridden a decent bike-- a good bike makes all the difference. Fwew-- sorry for the novel of a post.

I’m bus free because I can still walk but can’t climb stairs more than five inches high and the buses have ten inch high steps. When I was stronger, I would take a bus everywhere in Hartford Ct. Downtown was great when you didn’t have to park your car. I can’t walk up the hills where I live now, so I guess it doesn’t matter anyway. So I get 13 MPG with a 4WD.

Caddyman might not say it, but I will. Rich get richer. If they took all the wealth in America and distributed between every man, woman and child…those who know how to build on that wealth will be rich again…sad but true

It is being taxed to death to support urban dwellers.

Actually, (assuming you’re not joking) urban states usually pay more in taxes than they receive in federal funds, whereas rural states get more funds than taxes paid. There’s a much better argument that could be made the other direction. Not to keep clogging the board with studies and numbers, but here’s those: http://www.nemw.org/taxburd.htm

First off…this whole thread is about being Car-Free…You first come out and state about how easy it is to ride a bike or walk around town…I then show you how that’s IMPOSSIBLE for MOST people…then you back peddle and say that you’ll still need a car. I’m all for riding or walking when possible…GREAT…but as I’ve been arguing is it’s IMPOSSIBLE to live without a car (WHICH THIS WHOLE THREAD IS ABOUT) unless you live in a metro area one of the very few small planned communities that have public transportation.

For one 81% of commuters are private cars only, and that missing 19% doesn’t include urban dwellers who do much longer commutes on trains, etc.

So now your saying that we can’t get rid of cars???

I disagree. The way I figure it with my “fuzzy” numbers is that you could probably get maybe 30-40% or so of people to occasionally supplement their commutes with cycling or other readily available, but less “convenient” alternatives (carpooling?)

That’s NOT car-free is it??? Reducing is NOT car free…

Excellently stated.

I’m hoping for all electric vehicles to be come commmon. But it’ll be some years before that happens. I may or may not see the day.

Trust me–in Central NJ, both Hunterdon County and Somerset County, despite very high property taxes, are much more than “barely alive”, even though most of Hunterdon and much of Somerset are rural in nature. Would we like lower taxes? Of course. However, locals also seem to want the excellent schools, services, cultural facilities and recreational facilities that those taxes fund. In case you want details on these two counties that are much more than “barely alive”, see the text below:

"Hunterdon County ranks fourth among U.S. counties for household income according to the most recent U.S. Census. Hunterdon County’s median household income was $93,342, behind only Fairfax County and Loudoun County, Virginia and Howard County, Maryland. As of 2005, Hunterdon had the third-highest median property tax of any county in the nation at $6,988, the highest in New Jersey[2][3]. As of the Tax Foundation’s rankings based on 2006 data, Hunterdon had taken the top spot for highest median property tax at $7,999.[

Somerset County has the tenth-highest personal per capita income of any U.S. county and the second-highest in New Jersey.[4] The county also ranks sixth in the United States in terms of median income.[5]"

I agree with many of the posters who disagree with both the ability and the need for most of us to be ‘car-free in America’.

But more to the point, I think these kind of movements are counter-productive, because they distract people from what they can actually do (buy more efficient vehicles, learn to drive more economically, etc.) with nonsensical (for most) discussions about eliminating cars. This is kind of like a recent (well, within the last several years) recommendation from some Federal agency that the current guidelines on exercise don’t go far enough. Something like “The recommendation that everybody execise at least 30 minutes a day is wrong. Everybody should exercise at minimum of 60 minutes a day.” That just makes things worse! People think “No way I can exercise an hour a day, forget about it!”

Fuel prices will not rise unchecked; they’ll simply rise to the point where a barrel of oil is as expensive as a barrel of “fauxtroleum” made from coal. Then they’ll level off.

If the “30% own cars” winds up true, it’ll be as a result of the American Dream being washed away on an ocean of bad debt, not fuel costs.

Totally depends on the city you’re in. In cities with good public transport and no place to park a car without paying a fortune or getting it vandalized, not owning a car makes sense. In the city I live in, it’s pretty much impossible and at the least extremely inconvenient to get around without your own car. (unless you have $200 or more a week for cab fare)

There are over 100K and over 300K people living in the NJ counties that you mentioned and they are both bedroom communities for urban centers. They don’t count as rural in my classification system.

My sister lives in Howard County MD. That county of over a quarter of a million population obviously does not count as anything other than suburban sprawl.

I can’t argue with the state-by-state analysis, but I would break it down a little more than that. Every state has both urban and rural areas.

Don’t know about carfree-but I do know there are certain cities,that if I happened to dwell there,wouldn’t own a car.My wish list includes bike or foot only trails,shuttle services and logically designed shopping or business centers.

Personally I would change the drivers licensing exams. A regular drivers license would limit you to under 2000 pounds and no more than 60 HP.

For bigger cars Pickups and SUVs you would need another license.

I would lower the need to get a CDL to 8,000 pounds GVW from the current 26,000

There is really no reason why the average person needs to have a car over 2000 pounds and more than 60 HP and a 55 MPH speed limiter.

And if you do want to drive something bigger, Well you will have to pass a more stringent written exam and skills test.

Also we need to start a mileage based registration. Lets say for a passenger car a 10 dollar base fee and 15 cents a mile up to 5,000 miles a year, from 5000 up to 10,000 20 cents a mile, and 25 cents a mile for all miles above the 10,000 mark.

Every auto could be equipped with a recorder based on GPS technology. When it came time to re-register your car, they would just read the chip and give you a bill based on how many miles you have driven.

big brother meets great britan?