Brown sludge in cooling system, 1999 GM 3.4L engine

Don’t make the increments too small. Something like 22, then 44 would probably be OK. The torque wrench has to be moving at slow (10-20 degrees per second) and steady pace when it clicks or the torque will not be accurate.

Its much like using a file. If you move the file to slowly, it seems to bite more the drag is higher. Also at the start of each stroke, you have to overcome the startup drag. If you have any experience using a file, whether on wood or metal, I’m sure you were taught to use a steady speed, slow but not too slow.

Its the same with a torque wrench. Once it starts moving, it usually takes about an eighth of a turn to stabilize the speed, but the stable speed only lasts until you approach your limit on range of motion, usually about 5/8th of a turn. So you would want your increment to fall between 1/8th and 5/8ths of a turn.

You will be using new bolts, but also run a tap or thread chaser down the threads in the block. Any irregularities there will give you a false torque. Before putting the heads on I would run each bolt down the holes by hand to feel if there is any significant difference in the drag. If one hole has a significantly higher drag than the others, even after chasing the threads and trying different bolts, then you will have to address that issue, but at least you will have caught any problem early.

To get a feel of what I am talking about, practice torqueing your wheels. Generally you will be working up to somewhere between 80 and 100 ft lbs, you will need to look up that spec and the torque will build up much quicker because you aren’t compressing a gasket, but it will give you some idea. You don’t need to pull your wheels or jack up your car, you can loosen then torque one lugnut at a time.

Does any other vehicle come with Dex-Cool?

No!

It was a GM marketing ploy.

Does the standard green coolant or for that matter the HOAT antifreeze cause the cooling system to destroy itself if air enters the cooling system?

No!

ONLY DEX-COOL DOES THIS!

Tester

@common sense answer What makes Dexcool a superior coolant over the universal green antifreeze. Does it boil at a higher temperature thus absorbing more heat? I remember back 56 years ago in the chemistry lab doing partial distillation (I think that is what it was called). We had a 50-50 mixture of ethelyne glycol and water. We heated the mixture until the water boiled away then heated what was left until the ethylene glycol boiled. I would like to do the same.experiment today using a 50-50 mixture of universal green antifreeze and water and a 50-50 mixture of Dexcool and water. If, in fact the temperature was higher when the Dexcool boiled, it could be said that it absorbs more heat and is a better coolant.I still remember the days of the non-permanent methanol antifreeze. It boiled at 180 degrees but had a very low freezing point. We used a160 degree thermostat back then and didn’t have a pressure radiator cap.

So I’m nearly halfway through this process. There’s not really any gunk in the coolant passages, so that’s good. There’s black oily grime coating everything though. Any suggestions for how to clear that out?

The lower intake manifold was definitely bad, with the plastic having broken apart in various parts. I thought that I had accidentally loosened a headbolt by accidentally and that that decision was make for me. I figured out too late though that the bolt actually was what I originally thought.

It looks that the exhaust is pretty much all that’s in the way of removing the heads, but it’s definitely difficult and tedious, especially in the back (which I’m not finished with).

@hypophthalmus

Sounds like you’re making good progress! :star:

I hope you’re planning on using new intake- and head bolts :smiley:

When I had my 02 Saturn, I also had the factory service manual. In it, they recommended Calgon detergent (laundry soap?) for cleaning the coolant passages of the head and block, when it was disassembled. Maybe GM owns Calgon.

The heads are finally off! I can’t really tell if they’re sealing properly, but most of the coolant passages were completely clogged, but brown buildup on both sides. One part around one of the coolant passages was crumbly but not all the way to edge, so I don’t know if it was doing it’s job or not. Two of the pistons were white, not sure if that means anything.

I’m planning to use new head bolts, but I think the intake bolts are supposed to be reusable on this engine. They’re just regular bolts, not the stretchy kind. Interestingly, a few of the intake bolts didn’t actually seemed to be tightened. I could actually turn them easily with my fingers. No kind of thread sealant either that I could tell.

White piston tops is a pretty good indicator that they were getting steam cleaned, meaning a coolant leak.

@hypophthalmus

no, you’re better off running new intake bolts, such as these

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1136024&cc=1357152&jsn=433&jsn=433

now that you have the heads off, I suggest you take a straightedge to them, and make sure they’re not warped beyond specs

Keith: But there’s no way to tell if it was the head or the lower intake manifold that was leaking, right?

Thankfully, the heads seem to be dead flat.

So when I took the head shield off for the exhaust, some of the studs/nuts holding the exhaust manifold just kind of fell off. Could I use stainless steel bolts instead of studs and nuts to replace them?

@hypophthalmus

“Thankfully, the heads seem to be dead flat.”

How are you determining that?

Stainless Steel will actually make things worse. The SS wont corrode, but it increases the rate of corrosion of the more active metals it comes in contact with. You will be best off using the OEM studs and nuts and use an anti-seize on them. The anti-seize used for spark plugs in aluminum heads will work.

If the lower manifold was cracked, then its a pretty good bet that it was the cause.

@hypophthalmus

Let’s clarify something, please

Was the actual lower manifold cracked, as you said?

The reason I’m asking is this . . . you said the plastic was cracked

Yet I’m of the belief that the actual lower manifold is aluminum, while the gaskets are plastic

Did you in fact mean that the actual lower manifold was fine, but the plastic gaskets were cracked?

Big difference :smiley:

I used a precision straight edge and feelers gauges to check the heads. I couldn’t even fit the 0.015" gauge in.

And yes, I meant the plastic on the gasket was cracked/disintegrating. The actual manifold is fine.

Now that the heads are on, I really hope I didn’t mix up the short and long bolts. I mean, I probably didn’t, unless something strange happened in my head.

I would think you should have less than 0.005" of warpage

I’m guessing the 0.015" feeler gauge was the smallest one in your set . . . ?

You’ll probably be fine

Glad to hear the lower manifold itself is fine :sunglasses:

I was worried there for a second, but I just missed a zero. It was the 0.0015 gauge that didn’t fit, which was my smallest.

So I’m finally done with this, mostly.

It’s still running hot, but I probably just need to get all the air out of the system.

Had some coolant leaks, but I think I got them all. Except after a test drive it was smoking like something got on the exhaust. Or maybe it just got hot enough to burn off whatever was left on it. I couldn’t get it to smoke without driving it though.

It’s also idling pretty rough, but smooths out at higher rpms. Some of the vacuum tubes are definitely questionable, so maybe that’s it. There’s also some kind of vacuum tube valve that it seems easy to get them reversed, if that’s even a thing. But I don’t know how to tell.

And there’s a nipple on the back corner of the upper intake manifold sucking in air that I’m not sure if there’s anything supposed to be attached to it. I had a but of tubing “leftover” that seems to fit, but as far as I can tell, it just makes it a smaller hole, and I can’t find anything to connect it to. Maybe I should plug it up?

@hypophthalmus

did you replace the thermostat and cap?

“vacuum tube valve that it seems easy to get them reversed” . . . perhaps you’re talking about the pcv valve. If so, the pcv valve can have a huge effect on the idle quality

“nipple on the back corner of the upper intake manifold sucking in air that I’m not sure if there’s anything supposed to be attached to it.”

If you’re 100% sure there was never anything attached, then put a rubber plug on it. They are available cheap at all auto parts stores. Usually a box of assorted plugs and elbows for a few bucks

Is the brake booster vacuum hose securely attached, and in good condition?

Unless/until you get all the air out of the system, the system can definitely run hot

How are you going about getting the air out?

Yes, I think it is the PCV valve. I guess I’ll try reversing them and see if anything happens.

I’m definitely not sure the nipple was never attached, but I don’t see anything to attach it to now.

The brake booster is securely attached, and in good condition from what I can tell.

I’m getting the air out by squeezing hoses, and opening bleed valves. Although I haven’t tried very hard because I haven’t put proper antifreeze in yet. I can’t a wrench to the engine block drain, so I’ve been flushing it out with distilled water to hopefully get most of the old coolant out (which is a cloudy green that looks and smells almost exactly like limeade. Do you suppose someone used limeade as coolant?).