Or try this on pavement in a parking lot at say 20mph and see what if any skid marks you get…They should ALL lock up…
No you didn’t get censored, your at the top of the second page, and I will try this as soon as I can, my son has been working late every night this week.
Caddyman, only the RF wheel will lock up on pavement, and not all the time.
Here’s a shot in the dark. At any time (and don’t take this personally)when you did the front brakes did you by any chance put the calipers on the wrong wheel
You got me thinking, when I replaced the MC the first time, I also replaced the DS caliper. I ordered a reman from the parts store. I was looking at some pics I took recently and the PS is clearly the correct one, but the DS looks like it might also be a PS caliper, won’t be sure until Sat when I can get a look at it again. The parts store might have given me the wrong one. I should have noticed it.
That wasn’t it. I was kinda hoping it was, it would be the answer. Good suggestion though, thanks.
Red Knox, best idea so far. Rears are not working as they should.
One poster, Inmanella, suggested that I might have gotten the calipers on the wrong side. I do one at a time, but I did replace one and it got me thinking, what if they gave me the wrong one and I didn’t notice it. Checked this morning and both are correct, the bleeder valve is at the highest point, above the hose connection.
Red Knox suggested that I try slamming on the brakes on a gravel road. I have a dirt road across the street, its hard dirt with a layer of dust on top. I had to try from 20-25 mph instead of 5 mph, but only the front wheels locked up. I could clearly see the tread pattern in the dust right up to the rear wheels, no scuffing of the dirt like the fronts. Funny though, even on this dirt road, the car stopped from 20-25 mph in about 1 car length. I didn’t expect that.
I did 4 or 5 stops and the RR locked one time for about a foot. Its on the same circuit as the LF which doesn’t lock as quickly as the RF. I suppose the valve that serves the RF/RR is most at fault giving the RF most of the brake pressure.
Looks like a new metering valve (Toyota’s term for proportioning valve) is in my future, unless someone can tell me how to adjust one. There are two adjusting screws on it. I have taken it off and sprayed brake cleaner through its ports to make sure they were clear and I could see the needle valve and it did not completely close off the port. These cost over a $200 at the dealer so you can see why I was reluctant to run out and get one on speculation.
One more question, the rotors are from a national chain auto-parts store, but they are made in China. Does anyone suspect that the Chinese rotors may not provide as good a friction surface due to metallurgy as American, European or Japanese rotors would? Same for the rear drums, they were also made in China.
Although I prefer domestic parts the only problem I have seen with the Chinese rotors are obviousl, poor fitting studs, out of balance and untrue(requiring turning). Proportioning valves are problematical on many brands of cars and professional diagnosis requires pressure gauges($$$$), and of course, experience/knowldege. Before replacing anything, you might make one more attempt to bleed the system. With a diagonal system start with the right rear, then left front, then left rear, then right front. Fit a tight fitting hose 4 to 6 inches long on a bleeder, making certain that it is standing upright with the bleeder open just slightly and the master cylinder full. press the pedal to the floor several times until it is certain that liquid (with no bubbles) is flowwing out. Watch the reservoir closely to avoid it running dry and necessitating starting over.
If you can’t lock the rear brakes, the proportioning valve becomes highly suspect, that and the master cylinder…
You could always ditch the Toyota proportioning valve and replace it with a reputable adjustable unit from either Wilwood or Summit.
http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-MasterCylinders/001-PV/index.asp
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+115+4294918718
You may be faced with a little replumbing though, but worth it for the cost saving and self adjustment facility.
From what I can gather, the Toyota prop valve requires ‘special’ equipment for correct adjustment.
The ‘special’ part might just be their skill at charging exorbitant labor costs for some oily apprentice oik to mess with your car.
Thats the way I bleed the brakes, although I have the hose go up to a bottle that I hang from a spring or stick to the inner fender with a magnet.
The problem may be in the shoes themselves. I took it back out on the dirt road and cold not get the rears to lock using the parking brake. The parking brake barely slowed the car down at all. They have no friction at all. The parking brake is adjusted correctly.
Well I pulled the rear wheels today, cleaned everything again, sanded the shoes and the drums and lubed the backing plates. I also checked to make sure I got the correct shoes, the ones for the sedan are just a little smaller and could probably be put in by accident. But thats not the case.
Rears still don’t work. When using the parking brake while moving, it seems ineffective. It does work though, its like there is no friction.
After I got through, i did some testing. I use the corner of my property as a marker. I tried a 60-0. I was only doing 58 when I hit the brakes at the marker, got a slight lockup from the RF wheel about halfway through the stop. Total distance was about 135’.
I did the same test with my Saturn, which has good brakes. It tended to lockup too easily so I had to keep pumping the brakes to keep from skidding. 60-0 took about 140 feet. Both cars weigh the same and have the same size tires.
It just takes a lot more pedal effort to stop the Tercel. I may try the EBC pads that I use in the Saturn in the Tercel. They don’t make brake shoes though.