ok, since you don’t get the whole picture, and wont listen to others, go park outside ANY oil distributor. look at the names on all the trucks. i Guaranty you will see several different companies hauling the product. EM will load at getty, bp will load at chevron, motiva will load at hess and visa versa in no particular order, and the names change all the time.
your view that only (for example) em petroleum is sold at em stations is balderdash. the big corps swap, switch and substitute product all the time. i KNOW this to be true, since i do it on a large scale from the refinery to the distributor, and i am aware of it happening by the truck load going from the distributor to the station also.
Not just naivete, relentlessly stubborn naivete bordering on obsessive-compulsive. I have been there myself, but eventually, even I came to recognize the wisdom being bestowed upon me. Postivechange, you act as though all these kind folks are attacking you. They are merely trying to cure your ignorance. You should thank them instead of insulting them.
This is not the America I grew up in. These are a bunch of old scared men and wimps. I was starting to agree with the Tommy Lee Jones character in the the Valley of Elan movie. It might be the time to start flying our flag upside down.
Please explain to me how that isn’t calling us all unpatriotic. Since you claim Jeremy misinterpreted your comment, please explain to me what exactly you meant by that comment about the America you grew up in and flying the flag upside down.
I’ve read most of this stream. Those of you who are claiming Mobil oil stations can sell Shell oil is pure bunk. I own 16 Shell stations. I can only buy shell gas. Period, end of story. Or they will come and take my signs down and sue me for breach of contract. Yes, my delivery trucks are used for all brands and an independent company, but I get refined Shell product delivered only.
So you can only buy gas from Shell, but do you know which refinery the tanker truck loaded the gasoline from? Just because you pay Shell for the gas doesn’t mean Shell doesn’t ship you gas from the nearest most cost effective refinery.
I also travel a lot to Europe, and here are my thoughts .
You will never get people to do anything. The culture of looking down on those who try to change something, or perhaps are different, will never allow it to happen.
People are afraid to be different in this country out of fear of being mocked. Small town mentality, peer preasure, call it what you want.
On top of that, the government does not want change, cause they are paid by oil companies.
I heard this somwhere: “In US, people are afraid of the government, and in Europe the government is affraid of the people”. makes sense, doesn’t it? I belive thats so true, sad, but true.
So until you know how to change human mentality, nothing will change.
then you have a tight contract. i see several different suppliers going to local stations, and one of the truck companies is specifically prohibited from loading at exxon mobil, so how can they be delivering the em product?
YOU may buy from the shell distributor, but honestly; you don’t think they are really giving you motiva based gas each and every time do you? sorry. they swap and play with supply all the time. you may not see it, but it is done all the time.
Not the America I grew up in - people trusted people - banks trusted people - people trusted banks - there were no S&L scandals, no Enrons, no sub prime scam - if you needed a loan, you needed to prove you could pay it back, the government didn’t bail out foolish business interests that failed and gas was $.59 per gallon. Repulicans were conservative spenders and Democrats were liberal. Nowdays, everyone seems to be on a spending spree and conservative vs. liberal seems to change depending on the audience. And the band plays on, and no one objects.
Flying the flag upside down - It has nothing to do with patriotism. Flying a flag upside down is the international help distress signal, it means we are in a heap of trouble, so much trouble that we can’t help ourselves, and somebody please come help us. It was more a commentary on the way the chat session was going, nothing more. Sorry if the reference was a bit thin. I own a sailboat, I thought everyone knew what flying a flag upside down meant. I thought the rest of your perhaps had seen the Valley of Elan movie with Tommie Lee Jones. It was up for an award…bad reference perhaps.
Truly I give up on this entire cause. I can tell you what is going to happen without change. The price of oil will reach $250 per barrel. The financial instutions and pension funds that invested heavily in oil speculating thru hedge funds will go belly up when the bubble bursts (and most agree $250/barrel is the trigger point). A lot of people will get hurt in their pension funds.
You could try Citgo. It’s a wholly woned subsidiary of Petr?leos de Venezuela, S.A.; overseen by Hugo Chavez. OTOH, the Citgo prices near me are the lowest of all the majors. Only a few cents, but less nonetheless. I heard about people trying to boycott Citgo last summer, but it didn’t seem to go anywhere.
Great observation…so many people here are proud to be conservative to the point of being intractable. This keeps us from feeling we ARE in control…it just takes initiative. For some reason, complainining about tree hugger liberals is more important than getting the facts, adjusting your train of thought and taking action…in the voting booth. For some reason, they don’t trust science. I always thought that the ability to change was a good thing…many Americans are brought up to think otherwise. That’s why Oil dominates.
No one admits on this forum, for example, that we have actually made an EV that worked…and it’s the promotion of lies and the denial of the facts that kept the car off the road. A car that works for over 90% of the people of our nation that use 25% of the worlds oil…why doesn’t anyone take on GM for their role instead of repeating their same old lies.
I’m one of those that actually admits the EV1 was a good first effort at building an electric car, although GM did it to hang on to the California car market and for no other reason.
The EV1 was cramped in relation to its size (batteries took up too much space), and the range was too short for other than commuting, and the price too high. But GM should have stayed the course when California threw out the requirement for zero emission cars, instead of scrapping the whole program. The VOLT program would have been much further ahead by now.
However, a practical electric or plug-in hybrid needs new battery technology at an affordable price. The way things are going with energy prices and environmental regs, we will have two types of cars in the future; local/commuter subcompacts (run mostly on electricity) and hybrid long distance/family cars, most likely diesel powered.
The Citgo gas stations near me are privately owned. They buy their gas from Citgo…AND they are the HIGHEST around. One station which is by far the closest to me (next closest is more then double the distance) their prices are 15-20 cents HIGHER then everyone else. I’ve only bought there when I was running on fumes…and then I only put a couple gallons in until I went to the next station. I don’t know why anyone would buy from them…BUT they do.
Ever hear of supply and demand? Now that the SUV craze is winding down, and gas sippers are becoming more common, expect to see gas prices drop.
Remember the fuel crisis of the 1970s? As the massive 8MPG luxobarges of the 1960s were taken out of production, newer and more economical cars took over. Yes, there were some dogs in that lineup (Vega, Pinto etc) but as technology got better and better, so did those cars - and as gasoline demand went down, so did prices. We’re seeing the same thing today, 30 years later - but this time around, it’s Suburbans and Excursions instead of Eldorados and Electras. We probably won’t see any more ill advised crudmobiles like Vegas, Cimmarons, or Pacers, as automotive technology has improved considerably - but we will see more Priuses, Insights, and Escapes. The free market is already taking care of business - ever wonder why Vespas are getting so popular now? When my old van goes axles up for the last time, it will be replaced with a hybrid car.
If you’re looking to government for help, forget it - you’d be replacing greedy and corrupt executives with greedy and corrupt politicians. Back to square one.
I can tell you what is going to happen without change. The price of oil will reach $250 per barrel. The financial instutions and pension funds that invested heavily in oil speculating thru hedge funds will go belly up when the bubble bursts (and most agree $250/barrel is the trigger point). A lot of people will get hurt in their pension funds.
We live in a cyclical economy. There will always be ups and downs and that will never change. Those who don’t prepare for the recessions and depressions are their own worst enemy. Those who don’t diversify, or otherwise manage their risk, should learn to do so. Those who depend on unfettered economic growth to survive should try living in reality.
I am not sure you really understand supply and demand. Gas prices are not going to drop signifigantly. Even as we decrease demand, other countries (like China and India) are increasing demand as their economies grow and advance in technology. So on a global scale, our efforts to decrease demand won’t be enough to drop the price of gas since the supply is relatively constant. Our efforts to decrease demand will, however, keep the price from rising as high as it might if we do nothing.
Most posters agree with you that the market (high gas prices) will force a change in car buying habits. This time around there will be many excellent small cars, already produced overseas, hitting the showrooms. US manufacturers, no longer controlling the mnarket, will have to fall in line or go out of business. Chrysler will have an economy car from China (Cheery?), GM from their Korean subsidiary (Daewoo), and Ford from Brazil, Europe, Mazda, and other sources.
I disagree with you that gas prices will actually go down; they may stop going up and reach an expensive plateau of about $5-6/gallon which will change the car market for good and spur development in diesel hybrids, plug-in hybrids and bring back very small commuter cars.
PositiveChange seems not to understand that basic economics will drive consumer behavior, and to a large extent cause the necessary corrections. My only issue with the process is that consumers take some time to be convinced there is a problem, and considerable economic loss is caused in the transition period. This is the one area where governments can give the right signals; such as putting heavy gas guzzler taxes on SUVs, jacking up CAFE standards, etc. This would only penalize those who do not see the future.
You do not understand the power of speculation and it’s ability to artificially inflate prices.
Or maybe you should study the US real estate disaster that started with mass speculation without oversight. Or was that all supply and demand to, and I somehow don’t understand? Where is all the demand for new housing? It’s not there and it’s going to get a lot worse for anyone who bought in the last two years speculating on appreciating real estate or with the hopes of renting or getting a more favorable long term interest rate.
The oil futures bubble will break and soon. We will see oil back at $90 a barrel and we we also see if our goverment bails out the idiots that still continuing to speculate on oil. My advice, get some new financial advisors, the ones I follow are quietly stepping away from oil.
I recently looked into buying gas stations in China as I own some in the USA. The market there is quickly moving to hybrid and plug-ins. Why? Because China is going crazy building hydro-electric projedts. I saw an entire row of over 200 plug-in Prius vehicles (not available in the USA), in one corporate parking lot alone. It was a repeated experience I saw often on weekend tours, while I was looking to invest. I thought, gas stations in China are a bad future investment as the market is already moving to all electric vehicles quickly (and there are a slew of Chinese Automakers about to start selling plug in only vehicles). And don’t look for those vehicles in the USA, as the EPA and most states can’t figure out how to give an emmision sticker to a zero emmisson vehicle and as a result won’t license them. Good old american government.
And to those of you how think the Chinese increased their gasoline prices to help reduce the demand. Wrong, the Chinese are at least 4 steps ahead of you. The prices were increased to push the consumer to hybrid and electric only and to help the fledgling battery plants for all the electric cars. You will hear more about this within the month.
As for all of you oil futures commodity buyers, open your eyes, because I don’t want to hear your whining in six months. I haven’t a clue who will win the US elections but I can guarantee once an oil man steps down from the top position, things will also change bigtime. As for any of you who might be institutional investors, better start unloading your oil contracts and investing in water in the SW. I just flew within sight of two of the largest reservoirs in Nevada. They look about 1/2 full. Now that is going to be a real problem. Humans die without water – gasoline, there is always the bus, or a bicycle.
Good dissertation; I agree that China and India cannot for long subsidize gasoline, and have to charge their citizens the real cost; hence the price increase. Indonesia and Malysia are doing likewise, they can’t afford the susidies either! Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and some other oil countries continue to bribe their citizens with cheap, subsidized gas.
Both China and India see plug-in hybrids and elecric cars as the future, and are pouring tremendous effort into battery development. Even with all this, we are still heading for scare and expensive oil; the US Department of Energy just relased its forecast for 2030 and says the world needs 50% more crude oil by then. So much for computers doing the number crunching!!
Since the world only has 2.2% excess capacity at the moment, and most countries’ outputs are dropping, even with these high prices, the prospect of 50% more production by 2030 seems wishful thinking indeed. In other words, even with plug-in hybrids and small electric commuter cars, we will be short of liquid hydrocarbons (fuels of all kinds). There may be a temporary lull in demand as the US goes into recession because of $150 oil, but I believe high prices are here to stay; hopefully they will not go to $200/barrel.
Constraining demand to protect your balance of payments demands high gas prices; two years ago I was in France and gas was already $1.25 per liter, $4.75 per gallon. Frenchmen don’t buy big cars or big engines.
You do not understand the power of speculation and it’s ability to artificially inflate prices.
Yes I do. Just look at today’s news. Oil hit $140 a barrel simply because Libya has threatened to cut production. That is directly related to speculation, but supply and demand still account for at least 70% of the price. One guy from OPEC says it will get to $170 per barrel this summer.
You might want to ask me what I understand rather than tell me. That way we can avoid these misunderstandings.
