You want something that will work? It’s been suggested numerous times: Stop using so much gasoline/diesel/heating oil/electricity. But that takes effort and sacrifice, things Americans haven’t been used to lately. Unfortunately, we are now getting them shoved down our throats.
maybe instead of everyone wining [sic.] about the prices and wringing our collective hands in worry
Who is whining and wringing their hands? Personally, I believe fuel has been too cheap for too long. It is finally at a price level that reflects its true value. Do you realize how much energy is in a gallon of gasoline? A gallon of gas can move a 3,000 pound car 30 miles or a 500 pound motorcycle 50 miles. A gallon of diesel fuel can move an 80,000 pound truck five miles. Don’t you think that much energy is worth $4? I think it is worth more than $5. If you had to get out and push you might agree that the high price of fuel is worth it. I think the current price of gas is really a market correction. Fuel has been underpriced for too long.
This is not the America I grew up in. These are a bunch of old scared men and wimps.
Pos, in the America I grew up in, dissent is patriotic. Your name calling also shows that you have a low emotional IQ. This whole thread is a reaction to your anger. You even said so in your original post. Your continuing emotional outbursts really show you are not being objective here. This is supposed to be a debate, but your anger has led to a closed mind. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you luck. You are obviously going to need it.
your naivety is showing. you don’t really think bp amoco actually uses only US supplies do you?
next time i get a load (and i AM talking 4,000,000 gallons at a whack) from bp i’ll be sure to ask them to only give me the US gas… ha ha ha
think global economy not just NIMBY broaden your horizons and DON’T believe everything you read in the papers or on the TV.
the US imports most of its petroleum. most of the refined stuff is refined abroad and shipped here as finished product. a good portion (sorry i don’t have the percentage) comes here as crude. but hardly any leaves here to be exported elsewhere. these HUGE ships carrying around 16,000,000 gallons or more arrive loaded, and leave empty. i have worked in every port on the gulf coast, and been working in every port from norfolk to portland, me. no ships come in empty and leave loaded (at least not as an everyday occurrence.) if your 85% figure was true there would be a howl you could hear all the way from coast to coast!
the best way is to regulate the oil industry similar to how some parts of the electrical grid are regulated. In other words make the oil industry request price increases. People have been voting in the opposite direction and electricity is now deregulated in many states. What happens to prices? With no price controls the increase.
Only 40% of US oil is produced in the states; the other 60% is imported. How are you going to tell Saudis, Canadians, Mexicans, Venezuelans, etc. that you are only going to pay them, say, $80 a barrel or so for oil they can sell to everyone else for $135/barrel? Your price controls would only work on domestic oil , and completely stop further exploration in the US, since it would pay to try to go abroad to develop world price oil.
The US tried a blended price of old oil and new oil before, during the first energy crisis. It was a mess and led to cheating, confusion, and very little new exploration.
I believe Russia and China are doing that very thing today, punishing "“bad” behavior, that is behavior that does not suit those in power. Similarly, Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez in Venezuela are busy punishing “bad behavior”.
Draw your own conclusons!
These are a bunch of old scared men and wimps.
I’m a 23-year-old female environmental engineer. I thought I’d throw my $0.02 in. Your plan won’t work. Someone else explained why earlier…if you boycott ExxonMobil, there will be fewer stations supplying fuel but the same demand, so prices will rise. And ExxonMobil isn’t going to just sit on their fuel…they’ll sell it to these other stations who have more demand than their current supply can handle. So in effect, you will be allowing ExxonMobil to profit still, but you will be contributing to rising fuel costs. Great plan, eh?
NYBo has it right. The only way to see fuel prices fall is to lower demand. And even that may not work, because it would probably be more economical for oil companies to ship our fuel to third-world countries with rising energy demands than to sell it here, so we’ll wind up with a supply problem. We need to diversify our fuel supply - oil is great, but we need to supplement it with alternative fuels.
Agreed, and I have made major adjustments to my behavoir keeping my thermostat set at 62 in winter and 81 in summer, opening windows on cool nights so I don’t have to use energy at all. and I’ve re-landscaped my yard to make it more energy friendly for my houose. I read in bed at night with an LCD headlamp. I’ve gone to LCD and flourescent lighting everywhere. I’ve made about as many adjustments as I can. And by the way, I traded in my Ford Explorer two years ago for a crossover vehicle. Unfortunately, my new 2006 RAV4 gets about 40% less than the stickered mileage that was posted on the window. And I drive very conservatively. It’s my understanding that the ethanol added to gasoline and the EPA testing criteria of 48mph (highway - let’s get real) is to blame for the discrepany. My Ford Explorer mileage was not that different, but yet I am out 20,000 dollars. I chalk it up to my own ignorance. I want to switch to a TDI vehicle but VW is not yet delivering them. My discontent started in this stream, because the cost of diesel fuel has jumped significantly in the last six months in the US. I travel on business globally. Clean diesel is the standard in most countries I visit. The price of clean diesel is a few pennies higher than gas everywhere I’ve travelled. But here at home, I’m guess I’m just expected to put up with major price increased that I simply can not find to be justified. Yes, we all do need to cut back usage of energy, but who am I to dictate my wishes on others behaviors. I sacrifice for my own piece of mind.
As for what I suggested originally, I don’t know if it will work. I do know that it could perhaps generate publicity and maybe even have positive effects that we are not aware of. Like making people think and talk about the energy they use. And any change at this point would be a change in the right direction. We need more communication. Do you know how many people don’t even realize that crude oil is a fossil fuel. Of those I’ve asked, most had no clue that crude oil is a byproduct of long ago decaying organisms (plant and animal). Of course the supply is limited, and once it’s gone, it can’t be replaced. Personally, I believe we are in a oil price bubble, fueled more by speculators than demand.
Cappy, thanks for some good factual info. The US only produces 40% of the total oil it uses; the rest comes from a number of countries, Canada being the largest supplier with 25% of imports.
In addition, US refineries refine only 87% of the gasoline used, the other 13% comes in from Europe mostly. The US also imports 9% of its diesel needs.
The reason for this is complex, but refineries are now modernizing and expanding so they can handle heavier crudes and produce more ULSD.
Only some product exports take place; at the Detroit border, US and Canadian refineries often “swap” product back and forth, balancing demand and supply. Mexico at this time also has tight refining capacity, and some product exports may take place from the Houston area.
This whole discussion reminds me of the nine blind men and the elephant. Many posters have read or observed a small part of the total picture, and then go on a conspiracy binge. All the afctual energy info is publicly accessible by anyone with a computer and internet access. But I guess the facts are always more boring than fatasy; just watch any television talk show!
oh yeah. ‘bp amoco’ is short for… British Petroleum and AMerican Oil Co doesn’t sound very US only does it! sorry to burst your bubble.
Nice, showing us all your emotional state by personally and publicly insulting me. I made no claims of being “objective”. I was being subjective.
Again, go read the Sherman Anti-Trust act. And by the way, it was passed by our congress, not in Cuba or Venezula to stop what was clearly unsatifactory behavior by an oil company gone wild.
Something is wrong if you’re getting 40% lower than the EPA estimate if you drive conservatively. I always match or exceed the EPA estimates, so they’re not THAT far off.
Yeah, remember that Chinese drug executive they executed a few months ago?
Again, go read the Sherman Anti-Trust act.
I have a copy of the Sherman Antitrust Act in front of me right now. Please provide the specific section of the law being violated when a branded gas station chooses the most economical refinery from whom to purchase gasoline.
I love it! You call us all scared old wimps and you complain that somenone reacts by pointing out your lack of emotional maturity? You crack me up, dude!
The newest 2008 RAV4 like mine has been adjusted to 19,24mpg expectations. My paper says 21-28. Something was wrong obviously. Same engine, same configuration. Toyota must be burning some really good fuel in their testing. Granted I’m ok with being off 25% as I burn the cheapest gas and don’t typically drive 48mph which is the EPA standard for testing highway mileage. Not that I care, but Toyota was called by the EPA on their “innacurate fuel usage estimates” a few months back and was forced to redo their estimations for the past five model years. I wasn’t the only one duped.
I think it was only the hybrids that were questioned.
I’m not your legal secretary. You can find it.
And BTW, if you find any “Branded” gas stations that aren’t selling their specifically brand of refined fuel, please forward their locations to me. I’ll forward the information to the appropriate corporate headquarters. They will take action.
It appears that there is plenty of blame to go around. A couple of oil industry/finance experts were on the News Hour on PBS alst night. Both agreed that the current price of oil is fueled by speculation. Both even agreed on the approximate amount: about one-third. It seems that speculation became rampant when the Federal Reserve declared that they would prop up the financial industry when the credit crunch hit last September. It was clear that the Fed would let the value of the dollar fall with respect to other currencies. Just how much is the matter of speculation. As the dollar falls, imported goods, including oil and petroleum products, increase in cost to us. Until last September, the cost of oil products increased (since 2001) in a straight line. Lately, it has been parabolic - a sure sign of speculation. If there is any good news, it is that speculative bubbles can’t last forever. For a while longer, yes. But these experts agreed that the real cost of high-quality crude oil is about $90/barrel. The oil companies agree; they quote $85-$90 in their economic forecasts, which are available in their annual reports.