# BMW diesel? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100 "2013-07-01T01:19:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fast\_mom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/67e7ee/32.png) [@Fast\_mom](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Fast_mom)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/1 "2013-07-01T01:19:40Z")
So, looking at the Bimmer 3 series wagon. Diesel is coming out in October. Is it worth the wait/cost? What about performance? I have a passat wagon and the turbo lag is killing me. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![WheresRick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/wheresrick/32/2717_2.png) [@WheresRick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/WheresRick)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/2 "2013-07-01T01:45:59Z")
I would get gasoline, but I don’t know much about the 3 series wagon, what are you after, fuel economy? Power? Perfomance? Most diesels have turbo lag. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/3 "2013-07-01T03:25:52Z")
What is the cost difference? I doubt that the 2014 model costs are available yet. So, who knows? Fuel economy data isn’t available either, so that comparison isn’t possible. ---
**Author:** ![good\_shepherd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c37758/32.png) [@good\_shepherd](https://community.cartalk.com/u/good_shepherd)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/4 "2013-07-01T03:40:44Z")
From BMW’s website the cost difference for the diesel is an extra $1,500. Not much considering the car list around $42k. Depending on the fuel economy data, the break even point could be very close considering the gas version will need premium fuel, narrowing the cost per gallon. ---
**Author:** ![Cavell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/cavell/32/43396_2.png) [@Cavell](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Cavell)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/5 "2013-07-01T03:57:16Z")
Since most cars are gas, why do u want/need a diesel? A 3/4 ton pickup? Ok. Small sedan? Not so sure. I am no BMW affciando so I don’t know if it’s a 4cyl or 6? I know the Mercedes diesel 6 puts out 400lbs of torque which is nice. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/6 "2013-07-01T04:13:41Z")
Isn’t the 3 series wagon only available with AWD? Do you want that? You might look at the X1 S2.8i, the RWD with the turbo 4 gas engine. Lots less expensive, simpler, about the same room. ---
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/7 "2013-07-01T04:17:49Z")
The reason you don’t see more diesels in the U.S. it’s hard to see any advantage…The cost per mile to own and operate is more than a gasoline powered car…Not only do you have to buy expensive fuel, you have to buy Diesel Emissions Fluid too…But if you have $43K to drop on a car, operating cost is probably not an issue. Most BMW’s are leased anyway… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/8 "2013-07-01T05:52:20Z")
> The reason you don't see more diesels in the U.S. it's hard to see any advantage. The biggest reason was the emissions issue with Diesel and the new low sulfur diesel fuel. Companies would shy away from building them until they could build a reliable engine that could run on the new fuel. Almost every manufacturer is working on producing diesel vehicles. > The cost per mile to own and operate is more than a gasoline powered car. You can’t possibly calculate the cost per mile. It’s going to be different for each vehicle and individual owner. The more you drive the cheaper per mile the diesel will be. If you drive over 25k miles annually and keep you vehicles more then 7 years…then YES diesel will be CHEAPER PER MILE. ---
**Author:** ![Docnick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Docnick](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Docnick)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/9 "2013-07-01T06:18:06Z")
I agree with Mike; owning a diesel in North America is hardly worthwhile. In Europe, diesel fuel is less taxed and you get some real advantage. Here we also need better after-treatment drives up the maintenance cost. ---
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/10 "2013-07-01T06:37:49Z")
"Almost every manufacturer is working on producing diesel vehicles. " They don’t have to work on them. They have been selling them for years in countries where the economics work…Ford once sold a diesel Escort. Nobody would buy one… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:39am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/11 "2013-07-01T06:39:06Z")
> They don't have to work on them. They have been selling them for years in countries where the economics work..Ford once sold a diesel Escort. Nobody would buy one... So all these engineers…and marketing people are just plain stupid huh??? Let’s spend MILLIONS of dollars on R&D to build a vehicle no one will buy. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/12 "2013-07-01T06:41:47Z")
A big difference is the stricter particulate regs in the US. That’s resulted in the urea systems on all but the smallest ones. ---
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:07am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/13 "2013-07-01T07:07:29Z")
Nobody is spending millions on anything…The Diesel Freaks have been awaiting the coming of fleets of 60 MPG 4 cylinder econo-boxes for 10 or 15 years…It hasn’t happened yet… You can only squeeze so much Diesel Fuel (#2 fuel oil) out of a gallon of crude oil… Somebody has to burn the gasoline that is produced. That somebody is the American market…It’s impossible to abandon gasoline powered vehicles in order to switch to diesel on a large scale…The price of Diesel Fuel would skyrocket, killing the market for the vehicles that require it…Backstage, the trucking companies and railroads and farmers are lobbying to prevent any more competition for Diesel Fuel…Today, many over-the-road trucks are converting to LNG to lower their fuel costs… Again, if you are waiting for “The Diesel Revolution” it’s not going to happen… ---
**Author:** ![Wha-Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@Wha-Who](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Wha-Who)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/14 "2013-07-01T09:15:52Z")
I have an old IDI non-turbo VW diesel and am aware to some extent of the maintenance needs for a VW TDI diesel. At this point in time and for most of the time leading up to now, I can see no economic advantage to buying a new diesel. When my old VW diesel is finished, that’s it; no more diesels. I can also say that my wife had a IDI VW diesel and that I used to own a Chevette diesel. You must consider maintenance costs. For examples, VW TDI diesels need a new 25 dollar fuel filter every 20k miles if you install it yourself. Fuel and air filter costs for my Chevette diesel were confiscatory. Caddyman and Docnick have it right. In addition, I will say that it appears that some people demand fuel economy no matter how much it costs. That thinking may explain how the Toyota Prius is popular. ---
**Author:** ![wolyrobb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/wolyrobb/32/45497_2.png) [@wolyrobb](https://community.cartalk.com/u/wolyrobb)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:50am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/15 "2013-07-01T09:50:03Z")
This is the first time for a diesel 3 series wagon (the sedan has offered diesel in the previous generation) [http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-twinpower-turbo-engines-explained-50443.html](http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-twinpower-turbo-engines-explained-50443.html) VW has done very well with the combination of a Wagon with the Diesel engine, some buyers might go for the X3 or similar but the demand is there for a small luxury wagon ---
**Author:** ![Cavell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/cavell/32/43396_2.png) [@Cavell](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Cavell)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/16 "2013-07-01T15:20:06Z")
Saw a nice 94 Mercedes s350 diesel for sale. Has 550k miles. Owner says it runs quite well. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/17 "2013-07-01T21:46:01Z")
> Nobody is spending millions on anything.... Really??? [http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/m9r.html](http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/m9r.html) > **[Cruze Diesel Overboost](https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Jun/0612-cruze-diesel-torque.html)** > > DETROIT – Imagine quick off-the-line acceleration reminiscent of a classic muscle car combined with the efficiency of a fuel-sipping compact sedan. Dream on? Believe it. > **[MotorTrend: New Cars - Car News and Expert Reviews](https://www.motortrend.com/)** > > Trust MotorTrend for the best car reviews, news, car rankings, and much more. With more than 70 years of experience, we're your home for everything automotive. [http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/audi-a6-30-tdi-diesel-review](http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/audi-a6-30-tdi-diesel-review) Just to name a few of the new recent Diesels. > The Diesel Freaks have been awaiting the coming of fleets of 60 MPG 4 cylinder econo-boxes for 10 or 15 years..It hasn't happened yet.. I never heard anyone mention waiting for a 60mpg diesel. ---
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/18 "2013-07-02T04:49:54Z")
The new fuel mileage standards will be kicking in soon…We will see what the consumer is offered… " In 2008, we built our 20 millionth diesel engine which translates today to an average yearly production run of over 1 million engines, making us one of the biggest.” So what’s to develop? The car companies live on “Planned Obsolescence” Of course they are willing to spend millions on new models that turn your lovely car into a POS overnight… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/19 "2013-07-02T17:11:21Z")
When you don’t have a diesel in your lineup…and then all of sudden you do…I hate to tell you this…it took MILLIONS of development to design and bring that new diesel into production. There’s some reason companies are developing diesel engines…Why spend MILLIONS when you can just redesign a gas engine. The cost engineering cost would be considerably lower. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100/20 "2013-07-03T03:19:46Z")
The auto manufacturers need to find any way possible to meet the new CAFE requirements. Diesels in all market segments can help them do it. That’s also why turbochargers are becoming more prevalent, as are hybrids and electric cars. The infrastructure required to build them is expensive, and the manufacturers need an incentive. They have to pay $5.50 per vehicle built for each 0.1 MPG under the allowed fleet minimum. Since that is a minimum guaranteed annual loss of $1,000,000 annually for the large manufacturers, building diesels, electrics and hybrids all at the same time begins to makes sense. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/bmw-diesel/80100.md?page=2)