# Being sued

**URL:** <https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294>\
**Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\
**Created:** [October 3, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294 "2008-10-03T17:35:34Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![Whitey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/whitey/32/24680_2.png) [@Whitey](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Whitey)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/41 "2008-10-08T18:27:41Z")

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> Tell that to the guy’s family laying dead in the middle of 35E last year. No helmet, car in front stopped quick but he didn’t. Head hit the back of the van and splattered. Dead instantly.

Why was the guy’s family lying dead in the middle of the interstate? Who talks to dead people anyway? Were they all on the motorcycle? Who would [i]lay[/i] dead people on the interstate? That’s just crazy!

Now, if you want me to explain it to the family of the guy who had lain dead on the highway, I would be happy to since the crash statistics are clear and impartial. Perhaps I can convince other members of the family who ride motorcycles to take a motorcycle safety course and wear a helmet.

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**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/42 "2008-10-08T18:38:25Z")

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He’s talking about a judge altering or limiting the award. The judge has the final say that the verdict and judgement were arrived at in a fair and legal manner. A judge can set aside a jury verdict. At least, that’s how I have always understood the process.

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**Author:** ![rpstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rpstrong](https://community.cartalk.com/u/rpstrong)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/43 "2008-10-08T18:50:36Z")

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“Also, the average motorcycle can stop in half the distance of the average car.”

Just not so - Google it, and you will find a ton of references confirming that car and bike stopping distances are about the same.

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**Author:** ![irlandes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5e925/32.png) [@irlandes](https://community.cartalk.com/u/irlandes)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/44 "2008-10-08T19:10:21Z")

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Gosh, Whitey, you remind me of my smart-aleck brother. Did that posting make you feel all better? I sure hope so because it served no other useful purpose that I can detect.

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**Author:** ![Whitey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/whitey/32/24680_2.png) [@Whitey](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Whitey)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/45 "2008-10-08T19:58:30Z")

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> …it served no other useful purpose that I can detect.

If my response served no other purpose, perhaps it demonstrates the difference between “lay” and “lie.” Perhaps it also demonstrates what happens when you misplace your modifiers. Heck, it might be easy to forgive if the guy could write complete sentences and he knew adverbs usually end with “-ly.”

If my response serves any purpose, it is to demonstrate the advantages of literacy. What good is saying something if you can’t say it correctly?

How you speak and write says as much about you as what you say and write.

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**Author:** ![Whitey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/whitey/32/24680_2.png) [@Whitey](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Whitey)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/46 "2008-10-08T20:08:54Z")

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Okay, you are right. I found out why. In a curve, a motorcycle must straighten before the brakes can be applied. That increases the stopping distance. Also, if the conditions are not clear and dry, reduced traction has more of an effect on a motorcycle than a car.

Lesson learned! Thanks!

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**Author:** ![rpstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rpstrong](https://community.cartalk.com/u/rpstrong)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/47 "2008-10-08T20:47:17Z")

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“…is to demonstrate the advantages of literacy”

I see that you edited your post, but you still have it wrong.

“…the guy who lyed dead…” was certainly wrong, but lied is no better. In fact, “…the guy who lay dead…” is what you’re after.

If you’re going to nit-pick, at least get it right.

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**Author:** ![rpstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rpstrong](https://community.cartalk.com/u/rpstrong)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/48 "2008-10-08T20:56:20Z")

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A curve or a wet road make things worse, but even in a straight line the car will often stop quicker. The bike is handicapped by having so small a contact patch with the road. Most of the braking force (especially under maximum braking) is on the front wheel. A car has the same weight transfer going on, but to a somewhat lesser degree - and it has a lot more rubber grabbing the road.

Another factor is ABS (fairly common on cars, not so on bikes) which lets an ‘average’ driver perform ‘expert’ braking. Maximum braking on a non-ABS bike just plain takes a more expert rider.

The surprising thing is that the huge weight difference just doesn’t play so large a role. More mass requires more energy to stop, but the increased traction allows even more grip.

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**Author:** ![Whitey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/whitey/32/24680_2.png) [@Whitey](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Whitey)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/49 "2008-10-08T21:43:39Z")

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How about that! You taught me something. Thank you. I’ll correct it right now. How about “had lain”? I believe that is correct. I wasn’t as sure about the past tense as I was the present tense.

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**Author:** ![rpstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rpstrong](https://community.cartalk.com/u/rpstrong)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/50 "2008-10-08T23:50:02Z")

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Sorry, my answer got bounced to the moderation queue - I think due to a use of the past tense form of “lay.” I’ll rephrase it if it doesn’t come back.

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**Author:** ![rrhoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@rrhoff](https://community.cartalk.com/u/rrhoff)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/51 "2008-10-09T15:06:34Z")

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i would have to a agree. you need a lawyer.their is only so much that the the attorney for your car insurance is worried about.and that is how much he can save his employer.good luck

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**Author:** ![hdbill1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/439d5e/32.png) [@hdbill1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/hdbill1)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/52 "2008-10-10T05:00:57Z")

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that comment is just plain rude. i’m happy for you that you obviously grew up with the preverbial spoon in your mouth. not all of us were so lucky.

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**Author:** ![AndrewFrom1985](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b19c9b/32.png) [@AndrewFrom1985](https://community.cartalk.com/u/AndrewFrom1985)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/53 "2008-10-10T12:29:01Z")

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You have insurance for reasons like this illegitimate case. Don’t worry so much!

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**Author:** ![Whitey](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/whitey/32/24680_2.png) [@Whitey](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Whitey)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/54 "2008-10-10T13:46:12Z")

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What I know about grammar, I learned in high school. (I should add it was a public school.)

You don’t have to be rich to learn how to speak and write correctly. All that is necessary is to take some pride in yourself. Besides, I worked my way through college without borrowing a dime.

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**Author:** ![Ron-man](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/ron-man/32/739_2.png) [@Ron-man](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Ron-man)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/55 "2008-10-10T16:49:06Z")

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It sounds like a legitimate case to me. It is still legal to ride a motorcycle, isn’t it? It is still legal to sue someone who carelessly hits you with their car, isn’t it?

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**Author:** ![Wha-Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@Wha-Who](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Wha-Who)\
**Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/56 "2008-10-12T01:22:41Z")

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I want to add a little more to this. As a long time car, motorhome and motorcycle operator, I want to point out the obvious to some, that it is not at all wise to run at a large speed differential parallel to a long line of slow or stopped vehicles in an adjacent lane for fear of the possibility of someone in the slow or stopped lane deciding that they have had enough of waiting and will change lanes to gain a little more forward motion.

In the case of this possibility, or should I say eventuality, you as a motorcycle or car or other vehicle driver know that you risk your safety if you ignore this.

This does not purely address a right of way argument regarding traffic but is a reality in the world that we live in.

In addition, a motorcycle operator with some miles more than a beginner possesses will know that you must and can operate from your best available observations and instincts and with that you will see a car driver quite well ahead of time who will turn his tire, move to the side of his lane and continue on to change lanes. A motorcycle operator who ignores these subtle but available indications, proceeds to his own peril.

This brings up an interesting question. Should a new motorcycle operator be held accountable to the same accident avoidance realities as a seasoned motorcycle operator?

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**Author:** ![Bladecutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@Bladecutter](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Bladecutter)\
**Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/57 "2008-10-12T21:21:32Z")

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> Should a new motorcycle operator be held accountable to the same accident avoidance realities as a seasoned motorcycle operator?\<

Both Yes and No.

If the object is stationary, then yes, the beginner motorcycle should be able to avoid the object as well as a seasoned motorcyclist should, AS LONG as the object isn’t in the road in a surprising way.

This means, you are coming around a blind corner, and there is a rockslide blocking the entire lane. Chances are, very few seasoned bikers are coming to a safe stop, and expecting a new rider to not crash isn’t realistic.

Now, for more normal crash causing accidents, like a car driver turning left in front of the motorcyclist, sometimes you can say that an experienced rider would have anticipated the action of the car driver, but there are always instances where the motorcyclist could not have anticipated the action of the car driver.

One accident I had back in '05 is one that I will feel free to describe:

Two lanes in each direction.  
I am traveling south bound on my motorcycle, in the right most lane, at the speed limit.  
The two opposite direction lanes are completely packed due to normal NYC morning rush hour traffic, and the intersection they are approaching has two tractor trailers blocking it, preventing traffic from going anywhere.

Car in the left lane pulls a u-turn directly in front of me so that they could go back the way they came.

Pavement on that stretch of road was very bad, so full application of the front brake on my bike caused the front tire to lock, and bounce against the rough pavement, and twist the handlebars left and right, causing loss of control and traction. Down I went, narrowly missing the car that ran up onto the sidewalk to prevent being hit by my motorcycle, or sliding body.

So in my accident, the car made a turn in a place that was not expected.  
The pavement I was riding on was real bad, and contributed to my loss of control.  
The idiot lady driving the car got fed up with traffic and performed a stupid maneuver without looking to see if the road was clear in front of her, risking my life.

If I was in the left lane, where I normally would have been, I would have been embedded in her driver’s door, but I chose the right lane, because my experience has told me to stay right in similar circumstances. In my mind, I knew there was a chance for something to happen, but its not like an intersection altercation where I know which car would be the one to make the turn in front of me.

BC.

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**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\
**Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/58 "2008-10-12T22:00:48Z")

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Free advice–be it of a supposedly legal nature or otherwise–is almost always worth exactly what was paid for it. I would strongly advise the OP to take any advice posted in this thread with a very large grain of salt.

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**Author:** ![Countrydriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Countrydriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Countrydriver)\
**Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/59 "2008-10-12T22:59:10Z")

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Agreed. There is some dangerously bad advice in this thread.

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**Author:** ![Wha-Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@Wha-Who](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Wha-Who)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/being-sued/20294/60 "2008-10-14T02:52:51Z")

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This bit of advice was free too. Note what the poster said it’s worth.

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