Pffft, WS fluid isn’t anymore magical than Dextron or Mercon. Just has a different blend of ingredients/additives that make it work better in their new design of transmission. But, clutches still wear, bearing still wear, and the fluid still gets just as contaminated with small particle infusion. Not changing the fluid still leads to premature transmission failure. ‘Lifetime’ fluids are just a fantasy concocted by marketing people.
Hobestly, I have mixed emotions on this subject. In general I subscribe to the theory that fluids cannot be too fresh, but on the other hand I’ve never known anybody other than mechanics who ever bothered to change their tranny serviced, and with the exception of some Chrysler owners I’ve never known anybody who’s had a tranny fail. I guess I don;t find it hard to believe that tranny fluid could be expected to outlast the rest of the vehicle provided that it was properly designed, including the cooling system.
I can’t fault anyone for believing their owner’s manual when it says “no service necessary”. On the other hand, I certainly would not criticize anyone that got it serviced anyway.
The dipstick was omitted to prevent the customer from adjusting the fluid level without consideration for thermal expansion. Each time the dipstick is pulled out to check the level is an opportunity for dirt to enter the transmission.
Gone are the fluid loses due to cork gaskets or evaporation. After 100,000 miles the transmission fluid level is usually normal (and very dark).
There is also the temptation to dump additives into the transmission. There has been a lot of manufacture testing during the 1990’s with taxi cabs in my area to improve transmission fluid and there is no need for additives.
The fill location is now on the side of the transmission but no more “sealed” than a manual transmission, transfer case or differential.
@galant, It’s an 09 G6 with the V6. The plug is supposed to be down by the axle according to the pictures but I’ve never been able to find it. I wouldn’t touch it myself now anyway.
I’m not at all disputing the desirability of changing the fluid, even though it is full synthetic. I just don’t like the idea of flushing it without dropping the pan, but if you drop the pan, you have to be able to fill it up again. I’m gonna swing by the trans shop thats done 3-4 transmissions for me before and see what they say.
Nevada_545,
With all due respect, that is utter BS. The dipstick was omitted to prevent the customer from adjusting the level improperly or accidentally adding dirt to the system when checking the level? They why not seal the power steering and engine oil dipsticks? After all, the seals and gaskets in these systems are just as robust. It is just as easy to dump additives in these systems as the transmissions of old.
They did it to protect the new owners from themselves? C’mon, you cannot really believe that.
It’s more likely they wanted to reduce the likelihood of having transmissions worked on when they begin to act up by simply saying to the customer, “It’s a sealed unit. We can’t send it out to be rebuilt. We must replace it with another sealed unit.” If it increases the number of factory transmissions being purchased even by 5-10%, the marketing team will pat itself on the back. If they can use it to convince a customer to buy a new car than to spend $5000 on a new sealed transmission, even better.
It may simply be a reflection of customer care of vehicles. I venturing a guess that 40-50% vehicles out there with 150k have never had the transmission fluid touched.
Put the best possible fluid in (synthetic) and hope it holds up for the 150k mark they design vehicles around.
WS fluid isn’t anymore magical than Dextron or Mercon.
WS is a full synthetic transmission fluid. Dextron or Mercon both make a full synthetic fluid…but not all of them are full synthetic.
@Busted Knuckles
I asked that very question from the Manager of Powertains for GM some years back. At that time GM was the only US manufacturer with no dipsticks.
His answer, rather diplomatic, was that there was a great risk form owners putting the wrong stuff in there, and it was better to have the service station or dealer check the level at every oil change. If the transmission leaked, that would be bad news of course. His answer did not convince me, but I don’t think this is a conspiracy to sell more transmissions.
In short, I would personally not buy a car without a transmission dipstick. And I would not even look at a car with a CVT, which, at this time no one can repair.
In short, I would personally not buy a car without a transmission dipstick.
You may not have a choice in a few years.
The sealed transmission serves 2 purposes. One if the obvious PR move of promoting less maintenance required and the other is to put a roadblock of sorts in the way of someone servicing the transmission with the wrong fluid, incorrect level, etc. and then coming back on the car maker for warranty when things go bad.
The car maker is gambling on several things also. That includes hoping the transmission outlasts the warranty period (which it usually does), that the customer will wreck the car or trade it off, and so on.
In the event a transmission problem turns into a Good Will warranty situation where the customer pays half the car maker is still ahead of the game because the full cost and then some will be covered by the customer’s half of the bill. The car maker is losing nothing.
Driving someone into the purchase of a new car is a real possibility too; a la Subaru’s parts buy back program which was allegedly designed to help dealers out by removing inventory from the shelves.
I remember the old refrigerators manufactured before WW II that had belt driven compressors and the motor had to be oiled periodically. However, all refrigerators now have hermetically sealed compressors and there is no maintenance. Apparently, these sealed compressors on refrigeration equipment work. My question is why wouldn’t a sealed transmission on an autombile transmission be just as satisfactory?
Checking auto trans fluid level is too complicated for some to do it right. One of my old cars with a trans dipstick required the following:
Check at operating temp but not above 90F ambient, but not after sustained high speed, not after driving in city traffic, not after pulling a trailer. Park car on level ground, apply parking brake and block drive wheels and then run engine at slow idle. Move selector through all gear positions. Move selector to park and immediately read fluid level.
Some people simply can not or will not follow instructions. Eliminating the dipstick will save some manufacturing cost and will help to prevent non-serious people from checking the fluid level. Fortunately, checking the trans fluid level is not something that needs to be done on a regular basis as does an engine oil check.
Regarding fluid life, conventional wisdom, built from years of experience, says to change some of the trans fluid every 30k miles by draining the pan and using a new filter at that time for those vehicles that use a filter or don’t use a permanent filter. GM now uses an improved fluid, Dexron VI. It will take some time before conventional wisdom catches up to determine if the 30k figure will remain or if the partial fluid change mileage can be increased to 40k or 50k miles.
The hermetically seal compressors in the new refrigerators have a motor design that uses oil compatible with the refrigerant to constantly oil the motor components as well as the compressor components within the compressor housing. This was a radical design change from those old WW II designs.
But, in sealed transmissions, I don’t believe there has been that radical a design change. They’ve added gears and electronics, but the fluid still runs at high pressure, builds even more heat, and the transmissions still use clutches that wear. The fluid still gets stressed, heated, and collects wear particles as the unit is driven. Most of the time, normal driving doesn’t stress the fluid too much, and can last between normal maintenance intervals. But, if it gets overly stressed, like while pulling a trailer, getting the vehicle unstuck from mud or sand, or other transmission-stressing activities, the fluid will need to be changed much more frequently. Not changing it will result in a fried transmission. And with no dipstick, how can you see if the fluid has been over-stressed? The fluid can tell you a lot if you know what to look for.
The work of a compressor and the work of an automatic transmission are two completely different kinds of things. The functions of the “oil” are also very different. So old oiled compressors and auto transmissions are - well, I think apples and oranges still leaves too much similarity - lets say apples and rocks.
I would agree that the design of the transmission would have to be different if it is to be successful as a sealed unit as is a refrigerator compressor. Wasn’t the CVT on some Nissan models essentially a sealed unit that, if defective, was replaced at the dealer just as a refrigerator compressor is replaced?
I know that a Pontiac equivilant to a Cavelier in about 2000 did not have a dipstick for the transmission. I would NEVER buy a car like that.