Off hand, I don’t know what a 4Runner looks like; I was talking about these full size SUVs/trucks/mini-vans/crossover things, most of which have third row seats to carry kids. I was just observing that anyone with more than two little kids is pretty much forced into buying an oversize vehicle because you can’t put kids in the front seat with air bags. I also own an old jeep cherokee, but it only gets used when I need a really ugly 4WD truck. The problem is that people buy these things and end up using them as a second commuter car because they don’t want to buy a third vehicle. When the price of fuel gets high enough, I suspect people will reconsider using them as daily drivers.
The 4runner is about the same size as a grand Cherokee…6-cylinder…About 20mpg highway.
The newer vehicles like my 4runner you can have kids in the front…There’s a Air-Bag sensor. If the person in the front seat isn’t heavy enough the airbag is deactivated. However it’s still safer for them to be in the back. It’s still safer for kids to be in the back even for vehicles that DON’T HAVE AIRBAGS.
I agree that people are buying these HUGH vehicles for their every day commuter vehicle…My neighbor has an Excursion…It’s HUGH. The only good thing is that they don’t put a lot of miles on it. Just running the kids around. She’s lucky to put 10k/yr on it. Tom…her Husband drives a Civic Hybrid to and from work…He puts about 35k/yr.
I didn’t know about the air bag sensor, but I still don’t know if I would be comfortable putting little kids in the front an airbag equipped vehicle (I’m not very comfortable being in a rental car with air bags myself). I would probably just kill the air bag system if I bought a newer car (but that’s not likely to happen anyway).
I don’t care what kind of vehicles people own for occasional use, but it is stupid to use one of those boats as a daily car. The joke in my house is that my kids start singing the theme song from “love boat” every-time they see one trying to navigate into a parking space.
I agree that when the big three have tried to imitate the Japanese efforts, they have failed. I don’t agree that they should give up. I think they have failed because they always come late to the party. If Detroit could find the foresight to lead instead of follow, they might gain an advantage. After all, by the time they duplicate Japanese success, Japan has already won a large share of the market. Just look at hybrid technology. Detroit stood around twiddling their thumbs while Japan beat them to the punch. Now that Toyota is dominating the hybrid market (and Honda to a lesser extent), Detroit’s big three think they can make SUV hybrids that will compete. They know that they can’t compete with the Prius and the Civic Hybrid, so why try? If, however, they had won a large share of the hybrid market before Japan, they would be reaping the benefits now.
Actually I’m not comfortable putting little kids in the front seat if the car has airbags or not…None of my kids sat in the front until they were 12…and that was long before I ever had a car with airbags.
I still wonder how people managed to survive years ago driving an old Buick station wagon with 4 drum brakes, hueg steering wheel with no power steering, and enough people crammed into it to make Mexicans and Cubans today say “Even I wouldn’t put that many people into that thing.”
“Actually I’m not comfortable putting little kids in the front seat if the car has airbags or not…None of my kids sat in the front until they were 12…and that was long before I ever had a car with airbags.”
I never had a problem with kids in the front seat with seat-belts on, but I’ve always made them sit on the back of the motorcycle. I’ve never owned a car with air bags, hopefully never will.
That was before 20% of the U.S. population was made up of attorneys (seems that way anyway).
Better than the station wagon, I spend half my childhood riding in the back of pick-up trucks.
I have to agree that Detroit just isn’t “getting it” yet. I sometimes watch the “Today Show” from NYC in th emornings, and there was a representative from the NY Auto Show on recently for more than one day. He was clearly an old car salesman (or carnie barker). He was unveiling, from Frord and GM, SUV after SUV, Minivan after Minivan, and crossover after crossover, saying “america has said they want more room and (Ford/GM/Chrysler) has responded”. “And these vehicles are fuel efficient, they get over 20 miles per gallon”.
Chrysler, to its credit, really stretched its design limitations in the latter part of the 20th century under Lee Iaccoca. They created a uniform platform (the K-car) then used the success generated to come up with really new designs, the Ram pickup, the Viper, the Cruiser, the 300, and others. Ford and GM just focused on their SUV markets and let everything else sort of slide. Ford and GM actually used “branding” of other makes and aquisition to try to “round out” their offerings. They bought Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda (40%), and others, and “branded” models from Toyota, DaeWoo, and others rather than forward their own efforts. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan focused on good, reliable, everyday transportation.
The Detroit still has not, in my opinion, changed its business practices. Bill Ford seems more focused on shrinking the company than on turning it around. GM seems to be spending way too much time in the boardrooms. How long did it take them just to get the “business case” accepted for the Camaro? Have you seen one in the showroom for sale yet? The Queen Mary was built in less time! At least Ford actually built the Mustang! And stayed true to the pony car heritage.
I guess we’ll all see where it all goes. But I have to agree that from what I saw the representative from the NY Auto Show unveiling it did not look promising.
GM has gotten it in the truck market for decades. They made so much money there that they ignored cars. That changed a few years ago. Cadillac is a serious contender in the sport sedan market. Buick is a serious contender in the luxury sedan market. The new Chevy Malibu is right up with the Accord and Camry now. They can’t change the model line completely overnight, but they have a good start. BTW, have you seen the 2009 Cadillac CTC? Take a look and compare it to the CLK and 3-series coupes.
The image is, right or wrong; you buy an American Car to have fun and you buy a Japanese vehicle as a consumer good. I know many who dont fit in this scheme of things but the only thing Detroit has going for it is that they can still make vehicles that are really fun to own. For all its faults the American Muscle car has a huge following.
The good cars Ford and GM make overseas are concieved, designed and produced overseas. The only car that got introduced recently to the US market was the Holden Monaro coupe which was sold by GM as Pontiac GTO. This vehicle was designed and built in Australia with the small block Chevy Small Block V8 and they overpriced the hell out of it. Also they never introduced the 4 door version.
In case you missed it the American V8 is a favourite in Europe also, Ford 4.6V8 appearing in the latset offering by MG (MG SV). The Chevy Small block in Marcos. There is a Swedish company that uses the 5.4V8 (modified) in their sports car also.
What is really tough for the US automakers to realize is that they have a niche market in which they can make a good profit, but if they try to go after Mr. Penny pincher, they will loose out of their rear end. Stop making the booring cars and lets see some V8 thunder.
Now its time for me to duck and cover. The barrage of we will take away the V8 from you will be coming shortly.
“BTW, have you seen the 2009 Cadillac CTC? Take a look and compare it to the CLK and 3-series coupes.”
For the price tag it has lousy fit and finish. The only thing going for it is a good engine, boat loads of power and surprisingly good handling.
“For the price tag it has lousy fit and finish. The only thing going for it is a good engine, boat loads of power and surprisingly good handling.”
Amazing! The car isn’t even on the market yet, and it has poor fit and finish! That would differentiate it from the Cadillacs on the market now that have excellent fit and finish.
Gad Zooks, man, how do you see into the future!?
Does anyone understand why Cadillac is still in business? They used to make those big geezer-mobiles that my grandfather drove in the 60/70s, now they seem to make a bunch of cars that look like the bat-mobile on acid and some very silly SUVs/trucks; who buys these things anyway, their traditional market (my grandfather’s generation) has be dead for 20 years and there can’t be enough rap groups in the U.S. to keep them in business.
They used to make those big geezer-mobiles that my grandfather drove in the 60/70s, now they seem to make a bunch of cars that look like the bat-mobile on acid and some very silly SUVs/trucks
Cadillac sales in the 80’s dropped drastically…and they lost MAJOR MARKET SHARE in the Luxery market. People who could afford one were opting for more sportier luxery cars like BMW’s. They changed their image (or at least tried to)…but typical GM…they missed the mark. I remember one interview with a Cadillac exec that was published in the WSJ…“We never did a market analysis of what our customer want!!”
I guess someone buys those cars, I just can’t imagine who their target market is now.
It’s really scary; at one time Cadillac was the “Standard of the World” and every Saudi sheik, Oriental business millionaire, Latin American head of state, etc wanted one.
Then, as correctly pointed out, the world changed, and luxury performance cars became availble from BMW, Mercedes, Audi and reliable luxury cars became available from Japan. The white shoes old geezers switched to SUVs and Cadillac was left with nothing. At least Lincoln remained a corporate fleet car.
We passed a new Cadillac the other day and my wife who has reasonably good taste asked me: “Who makes that ugly piece of metal?” When I told her who and the cost, she suggested a high end manufacturer of anything should hire a high-end stylist as well.
While I can’t agree with my friend JT that the Cadillac, Buick, or the Malibu are the contenders that he feels they are, I actually like the new Caddy styling. I think whoever’s responsible may just have breathed some life back into the old dog. However, I test drove one with my daughter in 2005 and didn’t feel it was worth the $42K price tag.
Glad to hear that at least the quality and the handling are much improved. But that’s not enough. Overseas, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Audi are now the sought-after cars for the newly medium rich, and the diplomatic corps.
When you go to an embassy party, the entire diplmatic corps seems to drive Mercedes cars, with a sprinling of BMWs. The Japanese will have Lexuses, and the British Jaguars. Mercedes has a hammerlock on this business, it seems. You can’t even buy Cadillacs anymore in many of those countries that previously worshipped them.
In any James Bond or other action movie, the rich bad guys have Mercedes cars. If it is an old model, like the 600, it will likely go off the cliff and explode.
In Malaysia the US ambassador has a stretch Series 7 BMW. In 5 years in that country, I only saw one Cadillac, and it had US diplomatic plates. It came in from Thailand.
“In any James Bond or other action movie, the rich bad guys have Mercedes cars. If it is an old model, like the 600, it will likely go off the cliff and explode.”
Yup, I want a black 600 and a siamese cat (maybe a monocle too) so I can be a super-villain. Actually, I really wouldn’t mind getting my hands on a good SWB 600 (but I have no idea what I would use it for and it’s not exactly stingy on gas).
It’s probably just a matter of time before GM dumps them, they can’t really afford to have all these different brands losing money every year (no matter how many pick-up trucks, SUVs, and fleet cars they sell).