Oh good grief, get back on topic already. I agree the salesman’s statement was racist. And stupid. And I’m sure it didn’t help his chances of getting a sale. The world is full of stupid people of all races, religions, and political affiliations. The “whole political party ignoring blatant racism from their leaders” bit is straight BS.
I agree stereotypes do not describe an individual. On a non racist level there are bell curves for model of car, repairs and cost involved. Looking at the bell curve one could stereotype car models into problem vehicles. Not true for every one for sure, but some criteria in a sample can certainly be useful in determining a used car purchase. I am hesitant to apply bell curves to race, others are not.
Heck, I thought all cars looked about the same in the late 90’s. Domestic and import!
Heh heh heh. My statistics class was taught by a PhD though and I passed. All I meant to say is that if I got “mugged by every single person I met” I would conclude as a reasonable deduction that I would also be mugged by the next person I met and would get the heck out of there, regardless of gang affiliation or skin color. Seemed like a pretty good sample to draw a conclusion from. Or back to cars, if every single Ford I drove, the engine stalled, it might be reasonable to conclude that the next Ford I drove would also stall, even though it would not be fair to suggest that every Ford in the world would stall. Still I might be inclined to not buy a Ford, given the small sample of Fords I had driven. Then forget all the statistics and random samples and lets drill on down to total quality management to not produce any defects in the first place, even though they all look alike. So when you say you don’t like GM because of the few you have had, that’s kinda racist, no?
@bing. The probability theorist asks the following question: assuming I am tossing a fair coin ( probability of tossing a head = probability of tossing a tail) suppose I toss the coin 9 times and it falls head on each toss. What is the probability that the tenth toss results in a head? The probability theory would say it is 50%. The statistician would look at it this way: a coin is tossed 9 times and each toss results in a head. What is the probability that the coin being tossed is a fair coin?
Now the assumption is that each toss of the coin is independent of any other toss. With the example of the stalling Ford, one Ford may not be independent of another Ford due to design.
i hear the statistical probability side, but after 9 tosses, I would bet more on tails and keep doubling up on every toss. Worked for me at craps.
Not statistically logical, but empirically it sounds rational to me,
Yeah yeah yeah, I know all that but still in real life, If you speed down the same highway 150 days in a row exceeding the limit by 10 over, I just am not convinced that on the 151st day you are not more likely to get a ticket than on day one. I’m kind of a random cluster guy myself though where good luck and bad luck seem to cluster together randomly. So if you put a dollar in a slot machine and make $50, don’t quit just yet. So toss that coin and if you get 90 tails in a row, I’ma gonna put $5 on heads on the 91st toss. There’s science and then real life.
Returning to the original topic of parts markup, here is a relevant incident that happened today. One of our service writers was out today so I was helping at the front counter.
A few weeks ago a man brought his van in for some chassis work. We inspected the car, gave him estimates for the needed work, and he said he would reschedule. He made an appointment for today.
As I was writing him up I went over the estimates for the work, and confirmed the total price of $1130.00. He answered that it would be labor only as he had all the parts in the van and just needed them installed and the van aligned. I answered that we did not do work with customer supplied parts.
He stated “Well your price for these parts added up to $550 and I was able to buy them for less than $300.” I said “Yes, that sounds about right. But it’s our policy to not install customer supplied parts. I’ll be glad to do the work for the $1130, or I can give you the name of a shop that might install your parts.”
The customer ended up leaving, and we still had more work than we could finish today. Bottom line, a well-run shop can’t afford to do work for less profit than they should be making. That’s simply a race to the bottom of the barrel.
1 Like
You know that guy went away and told all his friends what crooks your company is. I am surprised your dealer doesn’t have pamphlets explaining reasons for using their parts. Today’s reasons are better than the ones in the pamphlet we received in the 60’s, from our Ford dealer. It might not convince, but it might keep some from bad mouthing.
Today you have sub-standard parts, liability issues, and brand issues. You also have to deal with some sources repackaging sub-standard in factory boxes, not to mention any-quality picked up from sources.
Take a user on our Fiat group. Rear wheel hubs went out at 70 or 80K. (It happens.) Then went thru 2 more sets in the next 10K miles… collected water and rusted out. Changed to a good brand (still refused factory) and no more probs. You can imagine if that was your dealership.
Why not just install his parts, but just charge a higher labor rate? Of course parts would not be warrantied by you. Just curious, I’m not arguing that what I suggested is the right thing to do. And I understand it’s not worth the hassle if they’re junk parts. But if they’re the same parts you’d be installing, I could see doing it. It might work out better to quote for the entire job and not break down parts and labor until after the fact and make it work out so that you get the money you want either way…?
I haven’t had much work done by a shop in a long time. I didn’t really look at parts cost when I did, just the total cost of the job. And I didn’t price shop to get the cheapest price, but tried to get the work done by a reputable shop. But I wouldn’t feel good about a large markup on the parts, to be honest. I understand all of the overhead in running a business. I’d rather pay more in labor. I just feel like I’m paying an auto shop for their labor, and I’d be more comfortable with that than paying a large markup for supplying parts.
Then again, I don’t complain about the markup on the beef when I buy a steak at a restaurant, like Bing mentioned. But they don’t supply a breakdown on the bill either. It’s just $x for them to furnish meet, cook it, and bring it out. Take it or leave it, tip them if you like it.
I have tipped an auto shop owner before in the past too! Stopped in to ask about an idle problem on a carbureted Jeep about 20 years ago. He immediately knew what it was and fixed it on the spot with spare parts in about 5 minutes for no charge. I gave him 20 bucks anyway. I felt like I was paying for his knowledge, service, and overhead and was fine with that - and would’ve been fine paying more if he’d billed me. Since that old guy passed away, I don’t know where I’d take a problem I couldn’t solve.
That’s actually against the law in many states. Labor rates have to be consistent and clearly posted.
Most mechanics I know won’t refuse doing the work if customer supplies the parts. But they tell them that they can NOT warranty the work.
As I’ve stated several times in this thread and others…seems like here in New England we do things a lot differently. Mechanics buy their parts from wholesalers that I can’t buy from. Parts include delivery. The prices for those parts are significantly lower then what I can buy the exact part for. The mechanic then marks that price up to what I would pay if I walked into a retail parts store. Some of our local chains (Sanel Brothers) also discount parts to mechanics. They also deliver the parts to them. The mechanic marks the price up to what I’d pay if I walked into a Sanel store.
I know of know mechanic that buys parts at retail price then marks the price up from there. I’ve never seen it done that way. Even when I worked part time as a mechanic while going to college some 45+ years ago it didn’t work that way.
1 Like
That’s how it works in my country also. The average discount the mechanics get here is probably around 40% (it differs for different type of parts, body parts could be 60% and tires 20%)
Try this for a reason to not install customer purchased parts .
- The part does not work then the shop is accused of breaking the new part.
- The defective part need removed and the customer is upset because of a labor charge to do that .
- The parts store might not replace the bad part because some once installed can’t be returned.
2 Likes
- Customer bought wrong part and now car is holding up a lift bay while they chase down the correct part.
3 Likes
Note I said “if they are the same parts you are going to install”.
All I’m saying is I wouldn’t really like it if I went to a shop that installed Napa parts and was quoted 50% more for those same Napa parts that I could buy retail. It would seem to make more sense to put the retail price in there and make the money on labor.
Didn’t consider the legalities and posted labor rates. Good point.
Post two labor rates. One for parts supplied by shop. One for customer supplied parts to cover the hassle. Make the second one double! Ha.
I dunno, doesn’t matter to me either way. I can see how it looks odd to a customer if there’s a large price markup on parts, if I as a non mechanic can go across town and buy the same parts for less. Even with overhead, etc. I’d think those costs would be covered by the labor rate. Maybe labor just needs to be higher.
Seems like your model works best where shops get a deep discount on parts. I always assumed they did around here also, but I’ve never investigated. And never supplied a shop my own parts unless it was one of those, “hey, I bought this to repair my car and I think I’m in over my head. How much would you charge to install them?” moments that I do recall happening once!
The mechanics in the small town I live in buy their parts from a local chain like (Sanel) at a discounted price. But cities like Manchester and Nashua - the mechanics buy directly from the same wholesale supply store the auto parts stores buy from. They also get free delivery. Only works in a city where the drivers don’t have to drive too far. I live over 20 miles away from the nearest city so that model doesn’t work very well.
This topic has been discussed before and the last time I made a comparison to the airlines. Remember how they used to just charge one price for everything? Now it’s all broken down into separate charges (for everything imaginable!). This race to the basement started as competitive pricing on airfare. People gauged each only by the airfare price without paying a lot of attention to the add-ons. Price shoppers will exclude the higher priced providers without taking into consideration the whole picture. This would happen to any shop that bundled parts OH costs into their general labor rate. They would be seen as less competitive than their rivals by most people viewing their labor rates alone.
I could see a shop that has a trusted, long term client, extending this option. In fact, one of the regulars made note of that situation. Then, they can trust the quality and accuracy of the parts being supplied. But your average joe walking in off the street that has already demonstrated they are a price shopper and likely PITA down the road when those cheap parts fail prematurely? Not worth it…
1 Like
I understand what you’re saying and agree. But are we talking about cheap parts as in different brands? Or the shop supplies the same brand and quality parts at a markup?
I had forgotten about an instance where this happened to me. I needed a cat converter replaced on my wife’s 2013 Toyota. I believe I could do the labor, but I really didn’t want to. I wanted an OEM cat, so I priced the Toyota cat online at around $600 from a large Toyota dealer that sells a lot of parts. Shipping was free. I priced the job (parts and labor) with our local Toyota dealer. The part was $900. I don’t remember what labor was. So I declined the work. They asked me why I didn’t want to have the work done, and I told them I could get the part for $300 less, and I might do the job myself. At which point they offered to match the price of the part if I let them do the labor as quoted. So I said sure, thanks. I didn’t and wouldn’t ask them to match the price. They asked me. I can’t justify giving away $300 just because a business has overhead, though. All businesses have overhead. I’ve got overhead too. So anyway, that’s what we did. I didn’t have an issue with the labor charges.
We have the Autozone, ADAP type stores near me. Great for getting Wax and oil, but that’s about it.
Our local parts stores carry far better quality parts. Good mechanics I know refuse to use their parts. They may say they carry a certain brand, but they don’t. Example - ADAP nears me says they carry NGK plugs…but they don’t stock NGK plugs for Honda Accords or Toyota Camry’s. Really? The most popular cars sold in the US and they don’t stock plugs for those vehicles. They do stock Autolite and Champion plugs for those vehicles.