" Is it a pain owning two sets of tires ? Yes, but it’s a bigger pain waiting for a tow truck in the middle of winter. "
We don’t run snow tires and we run large heavy cars, often on unplowed roads (county trucks aren’t out until 7:00 a.m.).
This hasn’t been brought up, but maybe it’s driving technique more than anything, else. Nobody in my family (we each drive different cars at least 50 miles per day, each) has ever needed a tow truck or assistance from anybody even driving in the hazardous conditions that sometimes go on for 6 months of the year where we live.
I do see cars off the road and my scanner is going all day long with accident reports and roll-overs, but I attribute this more to poor driving skills. Many of these people probably could use winter tires or should actually just stay the hexx off the road.
I do see cars off the road and my scanner is going all day long with accident reports and roll-overs, but I attribute this more to poor driving skills
I was driving I93 north in the little snow storm we had last night. There were numerous vehicles off the road. I saw one of them. The car who went off the road was driving about 20’ behind the car in front of him…doing about 40. Car in front hit the brakes because someone pulled in front of them…The guy in the rear was driving too close …hit his brakes and lost control and spun out. Luckily he didn’t hit anyone and he was able to drive away. Had nothing to do with the all-season tires he had on his Malibu…but everything to do with NOT driving safely.
I hear you CSA and MikeInNh.
Driving skills are very important. But for me, it all depends upon the weather where you live, the roads you have to travel and your ability to hunker down when things get real bad. We ran fwd with all seasons and a truck with weight and snow tires successfully for 25 years. Since we moved to an area just a 20 miles away, awd/4wd and snow tires are an absolute necessity and we find travel during the winter is much easier with fewer white knuckles every where. Again, plowed tarred roads, fine. Dirt roads with winter frost for 4 months out of the year with hills and your fwd behemoth is just another toy you park in your garage while you drive something a lot better. Your or my driving skills don’t amount to a wit on the roads we have to travel. Driving skills are most important if you can at least move.
I just spent the good part of the day before the Patriots play, with my neighbor, he using his 3/4 ton diesel plow truck and me using my tractor with a blower, clearing the road, turnouts and drives on our 1.3 mile road. It’s now down from 15 inches of snow everywhere to just snow over ice. NO ONE drives a fwd car with all seasons from December to April. It ain’t just the driver always. To say a fwd car can travel safely in 12 to 15 inches of snow we had last night before the plow trucks come out, with any hills involved is absolutely beyound belief. Wow ! I’ll give you a three inch dusting !
I guess most folks disagree with me and seem pleased as punch with their all season tires. That’s fine, but they don’t cut if for me. I have to drive where there are steep hills all around me. Hills to get to the food store, hills to get to I-84, hills to get to a gas station. I’ve driven on all season tires, and as good as they are they don’t have the snow and ice traction I need.
I think Nokian has a tire now with a “snowflake” emblem that is designed to be a winter tire that you don’t have to change when summer comes. The biggest issue seems to be the change over from winter to summer and owning a 2nd set of tires. This is a definite drawback to winter tires.
You Don’t Think We Get 15" Of Snow In One Dump? We Get Snow Practically Every Day This Time Of Year. I Cleared Last Night’s This Morning. I Will Say That We Travel On Pavement. We Created Our Own Special Assessment District And Paid To Pave Our Road When I Moved In The Summer Of 87. I Don’t Like Dirty Cars.
I guess if you live down a two-tracker then you’d need a special vehicle. I live in the middle of nowhere, but I purposely avoided that.
We’ve had several school closings and business closings already this year. People in my area are just getting electricity restored from a wet, heavy, 14" deep snow storm with strong winds that hit over a week ago. It took out half the customers in 9 counties served by our rural co-op. I was lucky and lost power for only five hours when a sub-station blew.
Still, no problems getting around with FWD and All-Seasons, sorry, except for one day. In 30 years commuting 74 miles round-trip to my former job, before retiring from that one, I had ONE day that I was worried I’d not get home. State Police And local Sheriff wanted every body off the roads, so my employer closed and I headed home. The plow had been fairly keeping up and I felt that I had it made, but in that first 26 mile stretch between little towns I crossed a county line just about midway. I hit the line and that next county had done NO plowing (They often pull the plows in a major storm to save them.)! It was a different world, an all white world. I literally couldn’t tell where the highway was, no tracks, and there was no turning back. Being very used to the curvy road, I used signs, the fronts of ones on the right and the backs of ones on the left to approximate the location of the road and pressed on and eventually made it. I was pushing snow at the base of my driveway and was able to get in and park.
Most days when the weather is like that, schools and businesses have to shutter. It’s for safety reasons. The biggest problem is with visibilty, problems finding the road, seeing traffic, and seeing kids at school bus stops, etcetera. I didn’t consider one day out of 30 years a reason to buy a different type vehicle or tires. I guess it’s a personal decision.
" you don’t think we get 15 inches of snow in one dump ?"
I don’t doubt that you have my good man. I do doubt that you can drive around in 15 inches and i hope you’re not trying to convince anyone that it’s routinely possible just because of experience. That makes no " common sense to me" . Oh, with a running start you can blast through a 15 inch drift or two…but the soliloquy you present means you 're on our own in this story. Are there any hills ???
I think it’s a case of the “older we are the better we were” Maybe ? ;=))
IMO, winter tires make you safer because you don’t have to be so aggressive to make hills. They allow you to slow down in some case, cause you aren’t worried you’ll never start again.
Regarding Tires, I think Tirerack puts it best: “Branded with the M+S symbol, All-season tires are capable of providing year-round traction (even in light snow).”
I’d say if you are driving on plowed roads at less than a 6% grade, all-season tires with good tread depth are fine.
As far as big vs. small car:
I had a chance to drive in my parent’s Trail Blazer over New Years in some pretty wintery roads in the Adirondacks, and I came out of it thinking small cars are better in moderate snow (2-6"). A a year ago I was driving my Saab through some really nasty roads, avoiding stuck and swerving SUVs all around.
The tipping point comes in deep snow (6"+) off road, when true 4x4 drive comes in handy.
Finally, a small car will stop better in any condition: snow, rain, and dry. I’d rather be stopping in snow in a 1.5 ton Saab than a 2.5 ton Chevy.
We Created Our Own Special Assessment District And Paid To Pave Our Road When I Moved In The Summer Of 87. I Don’t Like Dirty Cars.
I lived west of Boulder, CO in the mid-1970’s at about 8,000 ft, up a three-mile dirt county road. They paved it in the 1980’s which made it worse during the winter. On the dirt road, plows can use metal blades and plow down to the dirt giving great traction. On paved roads, they use rubber tipped blades in order to not tear up the pavement. This leaves a layer of snow making traction worse. I would have paid to have the county tear up the pavement back to dirt. I’d rather dive a dirty car on the road than a clean car off the road.
I had a chance to drive in my parent's Trail Blazer over New Years in some pretty wintery roads in the Adirondacks, and I came out of it thinking small cars are better in moderate snow (2-6").
You were probably driving in 2wd mode…which would give a small fwd car and advantage in snow. And if your parents are like MOST SUV owners who don’t go off-roading they probably have HT tires on the Blazer.
Next time you drive the Blazer shift it into 4wd. If you have just decent HT tires…the blazer is far superior to a fwd with studded snows.
A a year ago I was driving my Saab through some really nasty roads, avoiding stuck and swerving SUVs all around.
Then they weren’t in 4wd…There’s no way you can possibly come close to tracking as well as a SUV that’s in 4wd…no way. Either the vehicle wasn’t equipped with 4wd …or the driver didn’t know how to use it.
Finally, a small car will stop better in any condition: snow, rain, and dry.
Of course it’ll stop better…that’s why you drive the vehicle according to it’s ability. If the blazer won’t stop as fast…then you back off the car in front of you…you leave yourself a little more room when taking that corner. Learn how to drive a 4wd vehicle first…then come back and tell us.
" On paved roads, they use rubber tipped blades in order to not tear up the pavement. This leaves a layer of snow making traction worse. I would have paid to have the county tear up the pavement back to dirt. I’d rather dive a dirty car on the road than a clean car off the road. "
Rubber bladed plows ? That’s for sissies. I’ve never heard of anything like that. It wouldn’t work here.
Our large, heavy county trucks have steel blades and run down the highways and my road with them, throwing sparks that can be seen in the dark. They install wing or half-wing plows on the front and they too have steel blades. Our highways have rusty orange stripes (on the high areas) year-around from the constant plowing. We even pick up rail dust as a result.
There is no such thing as a tire that cannot be rendered helpless in snow. Even the vaunted winter tires will not get you out of a 4 foot snow drift. When choosing a tire for winter driving, it’s a matter of weather severity, driving habits, and cost.
It would cost me $2200 to get wheels, winter tires, and TPMS sensors for my daily driver. The winter tires would come in handy, on average, 14 days per year. None of those days generally have weather that is completely impassable without winter tires. Sure, I slip around more on my all seasons than I would with a winter tire, but I slow down, anticipate direction and speed changes early, and generally drive like a sane person. I have yet to have a wreck. The only times I have any trouble at all are getting the car rolling from a stop - and that isn’t going to cause me to hit anyone. So it takes me a few more seconds to go at the green light. So what?
Winter tires are great, but they are not a 100% salvation from the hassles of icy driving, and the idea that everyone who sees even a little snow over the winter should have them is to my mind, extreme. If I still lived on top of a mountain and had to negotiate a twisty mountain road with a steep dropoff on one side where snowfalls of a foot or more are commonplace, yes, absolutely I’d get winter tires. That traction edge might keep me from sliding to my death.
But I live in the flatlands now, and despite its reputation as the American Siberia, Minnesota really doesn’t get all that much snow anymore, and when we do get snow, the plows are so efficient in the metro areas (which is where I do the majority of my driving) that roads never become anywhere close to impassable, even in the midst of the snow storm. The cost/benefit analysis just doesn’t support getting winter tires at this point.
It should be noted as a PS that winter tires will not save you from the moron who sideswipes you because he’s barreling down the highway at 65mph in a blizzard. I drive safely. As long as everyone around me does the same, we’ll be fine. If they don’t, winter tires aren’t going to help.
Nor will everyone have winter tires on their vehicles. If your winter tires help you stop quicker, what about the guy behind you who is driving on tires bald enough to almost qualify for drag slicks?
When my part of Ohio got snow the day after christmas, there was more snow that day than all of the previous winter’s total.
Snow comes in a variety compositions. Most tires can handle light dry snow, even marginal all season tires. Heavy wet snow that sticks to the treads is a real separator of the wannabes from the real thing.
Secondly, without decent ground clearance, along with poor weight distribution, the best tires in the world are relagated to second class status. Fwd, great for starting off on level ground, is at a huge disadvantage starting on hills.
The car itself can be a culprit to poor traction with high floatation tires built for cornering on dry pavement. Tall narrow tires work best till the snow gets too deep, then it’s back to mudding type vehicles with heavy lugs. Throw a little ice into the trip along with hard packed snow, and soft rubber and studs get the edge. Unless you go with top rated dedicated winter tires, everything else is a compromise, including tires rated M + S and AT tires.
I was not a big winter tire fan till my kids started driving and my wife started teaching Adult Education classes at night during the winter…and I realized that driving home from refereeing games in snow and ice , 4 and 5 nights a week was a little less frightful with snow tires. I realized too, that babies don’t always decide they will be born on a dry day in July. So if you don’t plan that far ahead, snow tires help. If you live in snow country and have an awd car with winter tires, you have a pretty decent backup plan.
"The car itself can be a culprit to poor traction . . ."
Back in the “old days” we didn’t have “all season” tires. The cars were mostly rear wheel drive and in my area of the midwest we used snow tires in the winter which were mounted on the rear wheels. My first car, a 1947 Pontiac, had very good traction in the snow with regular tires. My next car, a 1955 Pontiac, had terrible traction under the same conditions. Weight distribution, I think, was a big factor. The 1947 Pontiac had a higher percentage of its weight on the rear axle than did the 1955 Pontiac. The 1961 Corvair I once owned had great traction with its rear engine, rear wheel drive configuration. I had snow tires for my 1965 Rambler which I also used on its replacement–a 1971 Ford Mustang. I also found snow tires improved traction on my 1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass.
With front wheel drive cars, I’ve not found the necessity to use winter tires in my area. One of our cars is a 2003 Toyota 4Runner and this vehicle seems to get us through anything with the tires that came from the factory and the equivalent replacement tires.
I would just like to repeat that your winter and the tyres you need are likely not the same as mine. So what tyre works well for you may be poor for me. I have connections in Ohio, Seattle, Florida and other locations. If I was doing a lot lf driving, I might have three sets of tyres.
I can’t tell you what you should be using. Your driving style location, time of day, time of year, etc. all should be considered when you are choosing tyres.
I moved from the south to Maine a few years ago and made it until February my first winter before anyone told me about different tire types. I had all seasons on. Some how, I managed to only rear end one person (my boyfriend during my first ever snow storm). Getting actual winter tires put on made so much of a difference. I am thankful for the experience because it taught me to drive sensibly in snow and ice. Now, I use studded winter tires and feel confident driving during snow storms even before the roads are plowed, if necessary. I think “all seasons” is misleading, but I also believe driving style and vehicle type are very important.
Southern Maine doesn’t get much snow. MAYBE 40"/year. Yes snow tires give you better traction then all season…But not so much that you can’t move when you have all-season tires. You just have to drive a little slower and keep your distance. Rear-ending someone had more to do with driving too close then NOT having snow tires.
"Southern Maine doesn’t get much snow"
Right, but they do often get hammered with wet snow, the most difficult to deal with. It’s more a function of being coastal. The farther north you go along the coast, the snow amounts remain the same as southern Maine. The problem for those people is, they often commute west inland to their jobs. Huge swings in parcipitation while driving to and from work during a storm over a distance of just thirty miles mean many of these travelers while having fewer then 40 inches of snow, still get snow tires. So it’s a determination of life style.
It’s more too about the mean temperature and how long the snow will last. 6 inch of snow in the south can completely disappear near the coast in a few days while it could stay for months inland. So, if you’re retired and can ride things out, why bother with snow tires. But, if you are in southern Maine and like to ski, a drive north of the coast toward the ski resorts ( Sunday River, Bethel) can be quite demanding unless you’re lucky enough for storms not to occur during weekends and vacation times. So, it’s not a simple decision based upon where you live.
To the old expression, " if you don’t like the weather in Maine, wait a minute " can be a added, or “drive a mile”. Elevation increases off the coast make a big difference !