Thanks Texases’have a librarain friend who has one and told me you couldnt do that with it.How far can you go on the battery alone ,under normal conditions?-Kevin (not stealing the thread AA,you have sold me on the Volt)
Only a mile or two, it depends a lot on conditions. My commute is about 5 miles, slightly downhill in the morning, slightly uphill coming back. I can drive quite a bit on batteries in the morning, much less coming back. I typically get about 50 mpg going in, 34 coming back, lifetime average a bit over 38 mpg.
Dup
I don’t think there are many out there, myself included who do not see the advantages of EVs. After all, the electric motor is the model of simplicity, durability, efficiency and low cost. But, until we actually get batteries into cars that give them the range these motrs deserve and at a price they should be paying for them, the interim steps are overprice, over hyped because of the economy so dependent upon the ice, profits have to be made on th front end.
I would love to own a functional EV. But I like most, are not willing to pay a subsidized price that is inflated to begin with and my tax dollars must still be figured into my cost. I AM sold on the Volt concept. If it had a battery range of 80 miles and a stand alone price of $25k, it would then do what it was really intended.; be revolutionary and wrth every penny, and more. Both of these attributes are well within the range of auto companies NOW. I sense though that we cannot make something too good and Being sold on the Volt and actually buying one, not leasing, are two completely different ideas.
@dagosa who wrote “If it had a battery range of 80 miles and a stand alone price of $25k”
Are you aware that the Nissan Leaf has already achieved this price barrier? Base model is $29k, and folks are negotiating paying $27k on average before any tax credit. But I could not buy one for two reasons: 1) I will only be buying American cars going forward 2) More important, a range extender is a key feature for any vehicle I will purchase. A must-have accessory.
dagosa also wrote: “the Volt…If it had a battery range of 80 miles and a stand alone price of $25k, it would then do what it was really intended.;”
But you are mistaken; for the owners and GM it is doing exactly what it intended. 80% of drivers drive 35 miles or less a day, and so putting a larger battery in a Volt is a waste of resources and $. For GM as a product, it’s allowing them to compete (~35,000 units sold to date) in a market they previously had no market share, and “steal” customers from other non-GM brands.
Keep in mind this is new tech and still the early adopter stage. New tech always cost more. I think Tesla has the right idea with different size batteries and vehicle form factors (Model X CUV); Hopefully GM will follow suit with the Gen II Volt. But don’t take away the range extender; and don’t increase the battery kWh size; it’s the perfect size. Just keep work to physical size and price down.
@dagosa who wrote “not willing to pay a subsidized price that is inflated to begin with and my tax dollars must still be figured into my cost.”
I still don’t get this thinking. You get a tax credit, similar to a home mortgage interest deduction, for engaging (as an early adopter in the EV case) in a consumer behavior the government wants to encourage. It’s a non-refundle credit. If you son’t pay the tax, you don’yt get it back. It’s YOUR OWN tax dollars being returned to you, no one elses. Lower personal taxes through policy is a conservative value, is it not? As is domestic economic spending, energy independence both national and personal. This things make me proud to be my own brand of conservative, unlike so much other stuff in the news.
Anyhow, the tax credit is limited to only the first 200k vehicles per manufacturer, and a way to entice them also into the EV business (as we provide TENS OF BILLIONS of tax benefits to entice oil companies into the drilling business) For GM, Nissan, and particularly Tesla, it’s an “attaboy”…for Toyota, Honda, and now Ford who is “dis-owning” their Focus EV, not so much…
Last comment on this whole EV range topic: As a culture we have been conditioned, dare I say even “brainwashed” into thinking that 200-300 miles is the range our vehicle’s (primary) source of fuel must provide. This early automotive paradigm came from the idea that you need a big enough “tank” to not have to pay possibly inconvenient visit the gas station but once a week or so, and you stand there and wait 5-10 minutes because hey, it’s what you have been conditioned to do so it seems ok.
The new paradigm is fueling at home (while you sleep) for your next day’s driving needs only. The charge time matters little ( I charge at just 8 amps). And then you charge again wherever you can as you work, shop, play, etc.
So why do you ever need any more than a typical days mileage as your battery range? The answer, for an EV, you don’t, almost never. For an EREV, to quote Taylor Swift, “Never, ever, ever.”
But the average person has a very hard time wrapping their brain around this cultural paradigm shift. To them, it seems confusing and inconvenient. The reality is quite the opposite. But it will take decades, as the iPhone generation who plug their phones in every night sees the EV as a no brainer, and once costs are low enough, it will be their vehicle of choice.
Last comment on this whole EV range topic: As a culture we have been conditioned, dare I say even "brainwashed" into thinking that 200-300 miles is the range our vehicle's (primary) source of fuel must provide
For some that may be true…but for me…a MINIMUM of a 200 mile range is REQUIRED. There are days I easily put 200 miles on my vehicle. No time to stop for a 30 minute charge. Plus traveling to and from MY 10-15 times a year. When mass transportation becomes cheap and easily accessible then that 200 mile range is a MUST.
PS two more reasons I would never buy a Nissan Leaf:
- Battery is air cooled, not a a liquid TMS (Thermal Management System) like the Volt, Tesla, etc. This has proven to cause premature aging due to heat, as well as excessive trip range loss in winter.
- Leaf system allows 90%+ use of the battery top to bottom, which can prematurely age it if used regularly. Volt only allows use of the center ~65% of the pack (well unless you run out gas, you can tap in to ~5% more to hopefully drive a few miles to a gas station, head hung low!!!)
@MikeInNH who wrote “There are days I easily put 200 miles on my vehicle. No time to stop for a 30 minute charge.”
Then you are unlike ~80% of Americans (really 90%+) and an (affordable) EV is probably not for you, and may never be…just as also a 2-ton pickup is not, because it might cost you $1000 a month in gas!
However a hybrid or even an EREV like the Volt may still make sense, over any gas-only vehicle, depending on how many 200 mile days you really do a month. It’s pretty easy to run the numbers, with the right spreadsheet.
@MikeInNH - Using the 2013 Volt and 2013 Prius EPA MPG ratings of 38 EV miles/40 MPG highway (Volt) and 48 mpg highway (Prius) respectively, for a 200 mile trip the Volt will achieve ~49.5 mpg, using 0.21 fewer gallons of gas. However since GM requests that you use Premium gas for the range extender to achieve the EPA rating, the Prius 4.26 gallons of regular gas would be 24 cents less for the trip than the 4.05 premium gallons in the Volt (@$3.75 a gallon vs $4.00 a gallon for premium)
This does not take in to account the initial cost to charge the Volt for the 38 electric, which would be $1 to $3 depending upon your personal kWh cost.
Of course, the Prius can never operate as an inexpensive to fuel EV “around town”, so once the Volt is way ahead mpg and cost-wise from thall e local commuting and trips, the Prius marginal highway efficiency will likely never catch up.
Then you are unlike ~80% of Americans (really 90%+) and an (affordable) EV is probably not for you, and may never be...just as also a 2-ton pickup is not, because it might cost you $1000 a month in gas!
The problem is they are NOT affordable. When they become affordable…I also suspect the range will be more reasonable. But right now the range or the price of the EV’s only makes sense for about 1% of the population.
@MikeInNH: You make no sense based in reality, or are misinformed…You can buy a Volt for $25-32K, depending upon what state you live in. That equal or less than the AVERAGE new car price ($31k) in the US. A base Nissan Leaf (if it fits your lifestyle) is only around $22K…$10k LESS than the average car price. You know, you CAN’T buy a 2-ton pickup for less than $30 grand these days either, and that has no traction battery at all…I think you expect too much tech for too little $.
Why are you comparing it to the Leaf…I’m not…no where did I make any such comparison.
Let’s compare it to a Honda Civic…About $21k.
28 - City , 32 - Combined and 39 - Highway.
The cost difference is about $10k…If you only drive 100 miles a day…the REAL WORLD gas mileage of the volt is about the same as the Civic. If you drive 40 miles a day…then obviously the Volt gets better gas mileage…but you won’t drive enough miles to make up the difference in the price.
@MikeInNH - No Mike, your math is off. If you drive a hundred miles, the Volt gets ~67 mpg. 40 miles electric at infinite mpg, and 60 miles gas at ~40 mpg. The Civic gets about half that for gas mileage for a hundred miles.
Factor in the $1-$2 to charge the Volt, and as I explained, you are getting like 30+ miles per dollar with the Volt in most driving, and less than 10 miles per dollar with the Civic. In other words, the Volt 3 times cheaper to fuel (and 3 times better to drive)
But the bigger point is, you don’t buy a Volt to save money over an economy driving Civic (though you might if you lease.) You buy it to save over an average new car in mpg (24 mpg) or price ($31k). And comparing apples to apples, the Volt is anything but average…it blows away a Civic on many levels. Take a test drive, pop it in Sport+L. You get what you pay for. And at today’s deals $4-5k off deals, and tax credits from $7500 to as high as $13500, you’ll be duped if you pay any more for a Volt than about $5k more than a comparably equipped (but not comparable driving) Civic. But again, break even means nothing when you are not comparing apples to apples.
But if your main goal is just to save money, buy a Hyundai, not a Civic. (Neither is comparable to a Volt in quality, safety, acceleration, handling, sheer fun, etc) If you really just want to save, ride a bike or take the bus.
Just to clarify, on a 100 mile non-stop trip, you’ll get ~13 miles per dollar with a Volt, the same as Prius. The Civic will only get ~9.
But in everyday driving, the Volt will squash the Civic like a grape in miles per dollar, as well as several other metrics.
No Mike, your math is off. If you drive a hundred miles, the Volt gets ~67 mpg. 40 miles electric at infinite mpg, and 60 miles gas at ~40 mpg. The Civic gets about half that for gas mileage for a hundred miles.
That’s what GM says…NOT what other people who have actually driven it have found…
But the bigger point is, you don't buy a Volt to save money over an economy driving Civic (though you might if you lease.)YOU SAVE MONEY IF YOU LEASE?????
You’re kidding right?? Leasing is NEVER EVER cheaper…There are some benefits if you own a business.
But if your main goal is just to save money, buy a Hyundai, not a Civic. (Neither is comparable to a Volt in quality, safety, acceleration, handling, sheer fun, etc)
I’m NOT interested in a volt or Hybrid at all…When did I ever say I was. I have no need for a small vehicle like that. And as for quality of the Volt…The Civic has a proven track record. The Volt doesn’t. Let’s wait until the Volt’s are at the 300k mile range and see how well they are holding up. I know how well the Honda’s hold up past 300k miles…even past 400k miles. It’s way too early to make any predictions on quality.
But I could not buy one for two reasons: 1) I will only be buying American cars going forward
I always laugh when I see this. From what I remember, the Toyota Camry is the most American made car, with ~90% of it’s parts and labor being done here in the USA.
I always laugh when I see this. From what I remember, the Toyota Camry is the most American made car, with ~90% of it's parts and labor being done here in the USA.
Ain’t it the truth. Most Asian vehicles these days are built right here in the US. Using more parts and labor then many of the American counterparts. And there are countless people who think their American badged vehicle is made in the US…when it’s actually made in Canada or Mexico.
@MikeInNH who wrote “I’m NOT interested in a volt or Hybrid at all…When did I ever say I was. I have no need for a small vehicle like that.”
So what’s your point in trying to make a cost difference comparison between two vehicles you would never be interested in feature-wise, one that you have no real world experience with?! (and that pretty much any thinking person would say just aren’t comparable vehicles)
I am a 1+ year Volt owner who lives in a cold winter climate. I have put over 22,000 miles on the car so I know the Volt’s real world performance well, much better than some 3 year old Popular Mechanics article written before the car was even on the market. I typical get 50+ miles EV range in summer and 40+ in winter. My worst EV range ever was 38 miles, in a blizzard! (the EPA range on my 2012 is 35; 2013 is 38) As for extended range gas mileage, the few times I have used that feature I got ~43 mpg. My wife got 38 on a hilly highway trip recently. My estimated range current says 48 because as of late I have been fiddling with Sport mode. I quit cold turkey today and I’m headed back to 50!
Some fair weather, flat-lander Volt drivers are doing even better than I…keep in mind, ICE’s gas mileage sucks in cold and hills just as well.
My other car is a Prius I have had for 4 years. It gets 47 mpg in the summer and 45 or less in the winter. And I drove Hondas and Toyotas for years (last car was a Yaris), so I when I say quality , well familiar with their build quality and also their reputations, a bit overrated in my long term experience.
As you said, time will tell with the Volt. After 1 year, I’ve had only one tiny issue last summer (ironically a gas engine air temperature inlet sensor failed, a quick warranty part swap out), been to the gas station 3 times for ~15 gallons added, and only spent around $50 on maintenance (2 tire rotations and a bottle of wiper fluid.