Any 2000 Prius still on the road?

General Discussion
81
The silicon industrial revolution is largely a product of military demands for remote sensing and communications. We have all these highly trained people without a task. Where will they end up?

The modern silicon revolution was NOT fueled by military demands…that main thrust was from Stanford and HP.

You want to to turn our economy funded by the Government?? That is just WRONG and stupid. We’ll bankrupt the US in very short order.

What projects do we stop funding, what overseas bases do we leave, what domestic bases to we shutter?

. Wasteful projects we don’t need. I already listed $100 BILLION worth. And I’m sure tehre are wrong.

. Who said anything about shuttering bases here or abroad? But if we don’t need a large military…then why spend the money on one.

I don’t understand why you’re defending Government Waste.

82

Perhaps we should just shutter all our military bases in Europe and let them pay for their own defense, force them to have more than just a token military force.
It’s amazing how superficially well their “socialism” works when they rely on being de facto protectorates of the United States for their defense budget.

83

You’re just not going to let it go :trollface:

fine

I wonder what happened to that Prius :tongue:

84

@B.L.E. Democratic socialism only works if the economy is productive enough to supply these services. That’s why it is successful in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand and other wealthy countries. Japan could easily fit that bill but has chosen not to go that route. Most Japanese save like crazy for retirement.

If you promise citizens the moon and can’t deliver you are in trouble. That’s the problem with Cuba, Venezuela, Argentina, Uruguay, Greece and some others that can’t make ends meet. Uruguay has cradle to grave security, but can’t pay for any of it. Corruption and abuse also play a role. The Greek Forest Service (in spite of having few forests) employs 24,000 full time state employees, all of whom will retire almost 10 years before the average American, with full pensions for the rest of their lives. These countries have proven that you cannot distribute wealth without creating it first!!!

The US would be a social democracy if it had no cost universal health and dental care, free higher education, and better government paid old age security. Those are the main differences.

85

The real reason you don’t consider the U.S. a social democracy is because of the logical fallacy known as “moving the goalposts” or the “no true Scotsman” logical fallacy.

86

According to the OECD, total federal revenues are about 10% of the US GDP, and have been at about that level for decades. The lowest was 7.9% in 2009 and the highest was 12.8% in 2000.

87

OK, where do you put the goalposts that divide “social democracies” from “non social democracies”? If the percentage of GDP increases to 15% or so, do we move the goalposts to re-exclude the U.S. ? Or would that also exclude many of the nations we now call “social democracies”?

88

Hi, could we please bring this back to cars? Thanks.

89

@Docnick

“Those are the main differences”

Not only are they the main differences . . . they are HUGE differences

In those “social democracies” that are considered a success . . . I’m obviously NOT talking Greece . . . the families typically try very hard to live within their means

That means not having an F350 diesel superduty, an RV, a new Cadillac, a big fancy house, all not paid for and all financed . . . when a more modest house, a simple trailer, two small cars, etc. would do just fine, and without living paycheck to paycheck

having lived in one of those countries many would consider a “social democracy” . . . if not outright communist . . . I say that you can typically do alright there. A blue collar guy like me would still eventually be able to buy that house and car. Maybe not have all those luxuries. I would still be working hard, but I would know that “the state” has my back, to some extent. Unlike here, where when you fall, you fall hard, flat on your face, break your nose, and good luck getting any meaningful help

A lot of americans want more than they can realistically afford. It’s called living beyond your means. And that includes the government. It’s a totally different culture than those “social democracies” . . . those countries wouldn’t even go down the road we’ve gone down.

Europeans wouldn’t even dream of driving a Suburban to pick up the kids, do shopping, etc. when a minivan would do just as well. Sure, maybe that suburban can tow your boat trailer, and the minivan can’t, but that’s no reason to drive it every day, as I see most people doing. Same thing goes for those lifted trucks, which never even so much as see a dirt road

90

Jessie Jackson sr, ham and eggs economics, extrapolated, gas tax for the poor is like a pig giving up a ham, for the rich it is like a chicken giving up an egg.

91

@db4690 Agree Easy credit has done in many US families. My relatives in Europe all have 2 cars (both 4 cylinder) and have their own condos or own their own homes. And none of them , except one nephew, have a college degree.

They take vacations in Greece and Spain and eat well. Not to have to worry about any medical or dental costs makes their lives more comfortable.

Those people of course have worked hard and diligently all their working lives. And at age 55 none have any debt.

And all citizens of those countries DISPISE communism for the big lie it was. The leader of Germany, Angela Merkel was raised under the system and she was a scientist. She has no use for it either.

92

Jesse Jackson would probably fail economics 101 if he had to take it. Demonstrations and political whining does not create skills or jobs and generate wealth…

We have a large contingent of Vietnamese boat people living here; they came with nothing, many did not even spoke English. Their kids are now well educated or trained in a vocation and they all seem to be doing well. Very few are on welfare. And you never hear them complaining.

93

I agree that communism was a bunch of lies and hypocrisy

94

Think of Communism as a system of Government and Socialism as an economic system. Communist countries employee a socialist economy, for the most part. Not all countries that practice socialism have a communist Government, however.

Social (as in socialism) Security is part of an economic system of wealth redistribution. Welfare and Medicare also redistribute wealth. Some of these countries that are more into socialism, tax citizens at rates of 60% to 70%, pool the loot, and redistribute some folks money to others. Think free college for all…

Socialism kills incentive for many workers to excel and this helped bring down the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Vodka sales went through the roof, though. The Communist Government’s 5-year planning didn’t help either when things like toilet paper ran out 3 years into a 5-year plan cycle!
CSA

95

@common sense answer

And we’re doing very well as a country, I suppose . . .

:smirk:

96

@db4690
"And we’re doing very well as a country, I suppose . . ."

I’ve seen better in my lifetime. I see us winding down. I see incentive to excel being snuffed out here. I feel bad being part of the wealth distribution (the receiving end instead totally on the contributing end). I got forced into Medicare (my pension [more socialism] won’t provide my other health insurance if I don’t) and one of these days I’ll probably sign up for Social Security so some working folks can buy me some new Cadillacs or a condo someplace nice.
I don’t feel good about it. I just don’t make a good socialist.

Bringing it back to cars… I really like that Grand Prix! Those seats! It’s like sitting in a hand! Quiet and great sound system, really dark tint windows except windshield, It’s like new and I love driving it, it scoots, didn’t pay much for it, cheap to insure…

America, what a country!
CSA

97

Vodka was the black market currency of the Soviet Union. Much like cigarettes are money in prison. If you wanted anything in the old Soviet Union, you had to get it “under the table” and the shop keeper who was sold out of bread earlier in the day might just find a loaf in the back room for you if you had a bottle of Vodka to give him.
I think a better name for “socialism” is “nanny state”. You can do very well in the United States by living within your means. Drive a small car that the Swedes typically drive, live within bicycling distance to work, live in a small but comfortable home etc. Also, opt for the richest health insurance plan your company offers including dental, put away a lot of your income for retirement, and pretend that those payments are your Swedish income tax.

The Prius is a product of free market capitalism. No government agency demanded that Toyota make it. The hybrid car was not the government’s idea. Toyota took a huge gamble in developing it. The Prius could just as easily have been a marketing flop and a footnote in history much like the Edsel.

98

But most of the guys I know do NOT wan to live within their means

They drive their fancy cars, which are financed, and they complain about the high cost of insurance, parts, registration, etc. Why buy a Camry, when you can finance a BMW . . . ?!

They live paycheck-to-paycheck, many of them, just about one step away from disaster

I even worked with a guy once, he set up his finances, so that he was dependent on overtime. To be clear, he was stretched so thin, that he needed overtime just to make ends meet. But that was his choice. When we had overtime, he made a conscious decision that those paychecks were going to be his benchmark, and he set up his lifestle accordingly. And when overtime was no longer approved, boy, was he in for a rude awakening :naughty:

The supervisor even told him once that, in his opinion, when deciding how much house, car, etc. you can afford, you shouldn’t factor overtime in, because that can disappear at any time. But my colleague didn’t listen

Actually, he was also doing some very shady stuff, in regards to taxes, and he was caught stealing. They literally had him dead to rights. Some stuff was missing, and later on, it showed up on ebay. A guy contacted the seller, and it turned out to be that scumbag . . . ! The supervisor was immediately notified. He wasn’t fired, though. He just got a dressing down, and was told that “It’s not okay to take things that don’t belong to you”

99
@Barkydog Jessie Jackson sr, ham and eggs economics, extrapolated, gas tax for the poor is like a pig giving up a ham, for the rich it is like a chicken giving up an egg.

Most of the rest of the world would be absolutely flabbergasted to learn that in America, the “poor” actually own cars to buy gas for.

100
I got forced into Medicare (my pension [more socialism] won't provide my other health insurance if I don't) and one of these days I'll probably sign up for Social Security so some working folks can buy me some new Cadillacs or a condo someplace nice. I don't feel good about it.

You either talk-the-talk or walk-the-walk…no in between. If you take social security then you are supporting a Socialist platform…PERIOD.

There are HUNDREDS of forms of Socialism…There isn’t one formula they all fit into. The US is NOT a capitalist society…NOT EVEN CLOSE. Many people pretend it is. And many of these same people gladly support corporate welfare (a form a socialism) and want to deny people who worked hard for 50+ years a small check each month. I’d LOVE to see people be able to save enough for themselves so we don’t need SS. But the way corporate America is trying hoard all the money it’s very difficult for anyone below upper middle class to do so. Especially if you live in the higher cost of living states like CA or MA.

Some people have to stop burying their head in the sand and actually look at what the corporate welfare system they support is doing to this country.