# Another self driving car accident **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770 "2016-07-07T03:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![B.L.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/848f3c/32.png) [@B.L.E](https://community.cartalk.com/u/B.L.E)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/81 "2016-07-22T02:49:39Z")
I’ve gotten pretty good at steering with my knees while drinking coffee. ---
**Author:** ![sgtrock21](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/sgtrock21/32/246_2.png) [@sgtrock21](https://community.cartalk.com/u/sgtrock21)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/82 "2016-07-27T23:00:51Z")
I’ve steered with one knee on nearly deserted interstates. Both knees would require cruise control. I realized with 42 cars, 3 pickups, and 3 motorcycles I have had a grand total of 4 cruise controls! ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/83 "2016-07-27T23:44:21Z")
_ **And another self-driving car accident…** _ What are these things called, Tesla? Did I hear on the news today when they talked about another crash, that he company has yet to turn a profit? It seems they spent most of their money on engineering and development and not enough on properly marketing these over-hyped little cars. You heard it here, first. I predict this company will become a road bump in automotive history. _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/84 "2016-07-28T03:23:14Z")
Now don’t get me wrong. Just because I click on the “heart” button doesn’t mean that I love you or that I want to golf with you. Well maybe golf if its not raining or too hot or too cold and doesn’t take too long and doesn’t cost much. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 12:23pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/85 "2016-07-28T12:23:56Z")
> [@common\_sense\_answer](#): > > It seems they spent most of their money on engineering and development and not enough on properly marketing these over-hyped little cars. > > You heard it here, first. I predict this company will become a road bump in automotive history. As opposed to GM who puts all their money in Advertising and very little in Engineering. Tesla sales have grown faster then any other manufacturer in the past 70 years. Prices are dropping. And with their new battery plant now officially open expect prices to drop a LOT more. Batteries account for a significant amount of the cars cost. The whole reason Musk built the battery plant here in the states was to drop the prices. As for Profit…I take it you never heard of Amazon. Amazon survived for well over a decade without one dime in profit. They lost MILLIONS every year. Now they are one of the most profitable companies in the world. The company is now worth about $270 BILLION. And GM is worth how much? $70 BILLION. ---
**Author:** ![kmccune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/kmccune/32/1237_2.png) [@kmccune](https://community.cartalk.com/u/kmccune)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 10:08am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/86 "2016-09-02T10:08:50Z")
How about Xeriscaping ?(no lawn ) an old timer told me if you your lawn takes more then 10-15 minutes to mow its too big ,I see the wisdom in that quote ,more and more,Used to br quiet around here now its the drone of riding mowers and string trimmers,12/7. ---
**Author:** ![Manolito](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/manolito/32/3070_2.png) [@Manolito](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Manolito)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/87 "2016-09-02T13:47:16Z")
Response to Common\_Sense\_Answer Autopilot is not perfect, but the miles driven per fatality suggests that it is significantly better than American drivers. Remember - Cars don’t drink, or eat lunch, or text, or look at the map, or tune the radio, or doze off, or yell at the kids fighting in the back seat… ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/88 "2016-09-02T13:57:20Z")
Yeah, but news today has Tesla and Solar City with a combined long term debt of 5.8 BILLION dollars and rapidly growing. That is unsustainable and something has to be done or the empire will crumble before it can be turned around… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/89 "2016-09-02T14:41:45Z")
Tell that to Amazon. They were well north of 1Billion dollars before they made money. And investors knew it and expected it. As with any new business market they are betting to ride out the storm. It’s a real shame it had to be a non car company to do it. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/90 "2016-09-02T15:13:31Z")
OK, 1 vs 5.8, big difference. BTW, the debt has DOUBLED recently and is still growing. Also huge difference in the markets they address…apples, meet oranges… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/91 "2016-09-02T16:02:39Z")
That debt was over a decade ago. This isn’t anything new in tech companies. Tesla just happens to the largest and most visible. I suggest you read their business plan and the line of investors waiting to invest. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/92 "2016-09-06T14:30:25Z")
> [@MikeInNH](#): > > I suggest you read their business plan and the line of investors waiting to invest I’m not a lemming. There’s probably a line of people waiting to jump off a bridge too… ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/93 "2016-09-06T14:59:49Z")
All I’m saying is there a lot of extremely smart investors who understand the long term plan and how profitable Tesla has the potential to be. Just like Amazon. If investors of Anazon pulled out when they were loosing MILLIONS each quarter then they never would have reaped the rewards of the MILLIONS they’ve made since. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/94 "2016-09-06T17:52:02Z")
Still you keep comparing Amazon to Tesla. Sure there is a period of time where it is hard to make a profit, but 5 billion in debt now for the two companies is a lot of money regardless of the deep pockets waiting in line to provide more cash. They are blowing through cash at an astounding rate. Bruce Williams, when he was on the air, used to quote his grandfather’s business advice: “Work with the classes, live with the masses, but work with the masses, live with the classes”. In essence the warning was that if you want to make a lot of money, you should market to the mass population, not an elite group that will buy a $70,000 car. Amazon on the other hand, markets to the entire population. You can buy a $20 item as easily as a $5000 item. You collect a little money each time. See the difference? Plus throw in the part about avoiding 7% sales tax, and the marketing strategy is a little different. Same thing with Microsoft. Lots of $100 sales, not a few thousand $70,000 sales. Its just math is all. ---
**Author:** ![MikeInNH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@MikeInNH](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MikeInNH)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/95 "2016-09-11T03:40:03Z")
ES[quote=“Bing, post:94, topic:93770”] Still you keep comparing Amazon to Tesla. Sure there is a period of time where it is hard to make a profit, but 5 billion in debt now for the two companies [/quote] I’m comparing them because of the extreme similarities. The investors knew right from the start it would take years and years to make any money. Both companies were venturing into completely new markets that had the potential to change the way business was done. I don’t know about you but I’ve worked for 4 different startups. Not one investor would invest without a plan where they saw profit within 3 years. Tesla and Anazon were unprecented in their prospected markets. I suggest you reread the thread. I was only commenting to the narrow argument that Tesla can’t survive because of its debt. Very very narrow thinking. ---
**Author:** ![TwinTurbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@TwinTurbo](https://community.cartalk.com/u/TwinTurbo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770/96 "2016-09-12T19:05:28Z")
The point is not just how much debt they have, it’s that their accumulating debt at a rapid clip and still ACCELERATING. At least the Titanic cut the props and tried to turn 😉 From an investor standpoint, there is no real comparison of the two situations as both I and Bing have pointed out. Completely different situation. Bing did a great job of detailing the difference IMO. I had WAY MORE confidence that Amazon would eventually succeed than I do of Tesla et al. And they turned the corner at a fraction of the debt that Tesla has AND COUNTING… If you’re in, good luck! [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/another-self-driving-car-accident/93770.md?page=4)