Spent more than 2 years looking for something, knowing mine would eventually go.
And nope, he didn’t just want to get rid of me. They were making a fortune, I’m sure, with me coming in to get things fixed. They wouldn’t kill their golden goose, so to speak.
Our neighbor (bless his soul now) when I was a kid pestered all the dealers in town so much that no one would deal with him anymore. Had to know how much foam in the seats of each model etc. Strength of the springs and so on. Like I said he ended up buying a 63 Bel Aire but insisted they install Impala springs on the back. So he had the only new car in town that was raked with the rear end about 4 inches higher than the front. The car was still around up until about ten years ago and I wanted to stop and tell the owner the story of his car.
At any rate, I ended up putting in a Goodwrench rebuilt diesel in my Olds when it had about 200,000 miles on it. I don’t know how old it was then but cost me about $2500. Like the dealer told me when I was asking about a trade “a car with no engine is not worth much”.
Huh? Impalas and Bel Airs were identical except for exterior chrome, and interior materials. Can’t remember for sure but the Bel Airs may have had the one tail light, one back up light per side vs the Impala tail/backup/tail on each side.
Good old days when you could order a Biscayne 2 door with a 409!
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@remodeler, You love this car so I would suggest repairing the engine in it. But first it needs to be determined that the head gasket is blown and based on your posts, I’m not sure it is.
Those plastic quick disconnects used in todays cooling systems are prone to cracking every 10 years or so. That was not the dealers fault. BUT I am wondering if they actually filled the cooling system or just filled the overflow tank. You have to remove the radiator cap and fill the radiator first, then fill the overflow tank.
A full diagnostic should be preformed before making any decisions and that will cost you at least an hours labor, about $100-150. Consider it an investment, it could save you a lot of money in the long run. The mechanic will need to run a compression test or a leak down test, or both.
Here is one reason why it could be worth it. Many V6 engines require the removal of the intake manifold in order to replace spark plugs and valve cover gaskets. The intake manifolds today are plastic and often have a coolant passage in them for the throttle body. If the intake manifold cracked around the coolant passage or if the seal between the intake manifold and the throttle body was compromised, the coolant could be going through the intake valves, into the combustion chamber and out the tailpipe all the while the head gaskets are good.
I also suspect that the dealer may have broken a wire or forgot to connect a wire to your alternator and that is why you are having the trouble keeping it running. These things happen in older vehicles.
Your current engine is what rebuilders would call a “primo” engine. Based on your posts, there should be very little wear in the engine. Doing a full rebuild would actually leave you with a worse motor than you have now. The absolute minimum should be done. If it needs head gaskets, then do it along with timing belts if needed and spark plugs. It will be cheaper to have all these things done at once, save on labor.
Right now you need to find a competent mechanic you can trust. Get recommendations from friends or co-workers but avoid any recommendation from someone who had had a LOT of work done. They maybe getting ripped off and don’t know it. Then get quotes for the diagnostics. A free 2 minute diagnosis can be the most expensive in the long run. Let the mechanic determine for sure what needs to be done before proceeding. Talk to at least two prospective candidates and if necessary, pay a diagnostic fee to both.
This is a business transaction, treat it as such. Don’t try to out mechanic the mechanic, you won’t do that. Just do good business, you will be respected for that.
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The cooling system cap is on the reservoir, filling the reservoir fills the engine. There is no radiator cap or overflow tank.
The cap near the radiator is the power steering reservoir.
According to the service manual, it does have a radiator cap.
I guess I stand corrected. I googled for the cooling system and it only offered one version and did not specify. I tried to google with V6 and it still took me to this entry.
I stand by the rest of my advice, unless someone proves me wrong on any of it.
Given the age of the vehicle, suggest to ask your engine-replacement-shop manager’s advice about whether it makes sense to also replace the water pump, radiator, the radiator fan motors, and cooling system pressure cap. And once everything is put back together, to fully test the radiator cooling fans are turning on and off consistently, and at the correct temperature. Radiator cooling fans not turning on correctly, or not spinning fast enough, can cause the engine to overheat in stop and go traffic, damaging the head gasket. Leak checking & back flushing the heater core makes sense too, while the engine is out. Other things that can cause overheating, and should be tested before returning the car to you imo: air/fuel mixture too lean, ignition timing incorrect, air in cooling system, cooling system not holding pressure. An experinced tech should have no problems replacing your engine. Best of luck.
One more thing. A rule of thumb, if a new failure shows up right after a maintenance function has been performed, go back to the maintenance function and look for mistakes. Don’t accept that it is a new failure and totally unconnected to the previous work because it is almost always connected to the previous work.
This is why I suspect that the alternator wasn’t plugged back in or the main wire was not connected and that is the reason the car wont stay running, the battery is going dead.
Since the intake manifold was removed, the coolant leak is more likely connected to this than a blown head gasket. If you did not overheat the engine, the head gaskets should be good. If it did overheat because the coolant leaked out because of a leak in the intake manifold or throttle body, then the dealer should be responsible for replacing the head gaskets, on their dime.
Holy cow. My head is spinning from all this new info. First about that “leak” of coolant - the dealer said it was going into the engine and getting burned up. He didn’t say it was going out the exhaust. He also said it/there wasn’t anything they did or could do or that I did/could do. In other words, it wasn’t their fault it happened.
Second: the car’s at the dealer’s. It can’t be driven anywhere, so any diagnostics would have to be done there. I didn’t ask, but I would assume the did a diagnostic on it. Maybe I should ask. You know the old saying about what assuming does.
The picture Nevada 545 posted is pretty much my engine. I don’t think mine has that Alien tentacled cover thing though, I think mine is a solid cover. That yellowed plastic container on the left is the coolant tank that either never got filled or leaked. In any event it was bone dry and that’s what the dealer said caused the head gasket problem. He said the leak caused the head gasket to fail, not the other way around. Only thing we can’t figure out is why there wasn’t any indication on the dash of it overheating. All lights came on but no light came on that indicated overheating.
I had the first wagon Mazda made back in the '70s I think it was, and that head gasket blew also - as I was doing 60 on the thruway, and a ton of white smoke came billowing out of the engine. I remember with that blown head gasket you couldn’t get near the front it was so hot.
With this wagon, 30 some years later - the 2nd wagon Mazda ever made - when it stalled while taking it to the dealer and opening the hood to attach the jumper cables there wasn’t any heat coming off the engine, so I assumed it was just the battery because I kept having to jump it and it started then but would stall out again a few minutes later or when I had to come to a full stop.
As for having a diagnostic and all the other stuff mentioned, on Monday the car’s gonna get towed to the place that will replace the engine, so there’s no time to find someone to look at it. And even if there was, it would have to get towed there. As I mentioned a few times before, unfortunately I don’t know anyone who can refer me to a mechanic to look at it. I’ve been asking and trying for years so I didn’t have to always take it to the dealer. Friends take their cars to their dealer or have a family member to look at their cars, who don’t want to look at mine because it’s a different make. I don’t work, so don’t have any co-workers to ask. Neighbors have newer cars or trucks so they’re no help (I asked).
Should I go back to the dealer tomorrow and ask if he did a diagnostic on it? If so, can I see the results and if not, would he do one? And do I just ask for a general diagnostic, or a diagnostic of particular things? I just assume when something’s wrong they automatically do that so I’ve never asked for one and they’ve never told me they did one. Like with the valve seals they replaced - I assume they did a diagnostic to find that out but they never told me they did one.
Kinda at my wits end. This “new” used engine seems to be my only option.
Keith, you say you suspect the alternator wasn’t plugged in. If the alternator wasn’t connected I couldn’t drive it like I was, right?
As for overheating the engine, I don’t know if it got overheated or not and I don’t remember if the dealer said it did or didn’t. All I remember him saying is the coolant got into the engine and got evaporated.
And your comment about a failure occurring after a maintenance function being performed - it actually did. Which is why I thought it might be their fault, because: They replaced the valve seal and another gasket (and they had to take a bunch of things off to get to them) and that’s when the hose to the coolant tank broke. Then I picked the car up, and a week later found that the coolant tank was empty, took it back and they said they filled it up, but I didn’t check to see that they actually did. Then during that next week I drove the car a few days, and one day tried to start the car, it wouldn’t start. I called AAA, they said I need a new battery, told me to let it run for an hour, found out it should be driven to charge the battery, not just let it idle, took it for a drive to do that, it died, and I saw the tank was again empty. They kept the car for a couple days and called me about the head gasket problem.
George, not sure I understand what your comments refer to. If the engine’s getting replaced, are you saying to do all those things to the “new” engine going in?
The battery will discharge after about one hour of driving if the alternator is disconnected, you used the car for a month before the battery failed.
You plan on towing the car to a shop to have the repair done, that shop can inspect the engine before beginning the repair.
I think you misunderstood my intention. I plan on having the car towed to a shop to have a different engine put in, not to repair the one that’s in there now.
Vehicle repair, not a specific engine repair. They should assess the damage before replacing the engine.
Well I guess I better ask if they’d do that before just putting the other engine in. I didn’t know that’s something they would/should? do.
If you don’t trust the dealers diagnosis, shouldn’t you get a second opinion?
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Yes. So before they put in the “new” engine, I should ask them to check the one that’s in there to see if it really needs a new one or if what’s there could be fixed? I don’t know if they do that or if they just put engines in. Maybe they’d say yes, it needs a new one because that’ll be around $3k for them, but to fix what’s there could be much less? They seem to have a good reputation but I don’t know what kind of shop they are other than they put engines in.
First, your dealer is BS’ing you. Second, as long as there is a sufficient charge on the battery, your car will run. Either the alternator is disconnected or the battery is bad, but I suspect that it is the alternator. It could be both by now because running a battery totally flat will damage the battery. If the battery is several years old, that could damage it for good.
I am starting to suspect that the loss of coolant could be that they also cracked the reservoir. It is plastic and they also get brittle with age. I would not fault them if that happened, but I would fault them for not finding that.
The head gasket is NOT the fault of the initial coolant loss and the dealer is totally BS on this. By now you could have a blown head gasket(s) but that would be the result of the original coolant leak. It is time to talk with the general manager at the dealership and NOT the service writer. NEVER trust the service writer, they make a commission on any upsell they can get. They are not mechanics, they are salesmen.
BTW, do not settle for the service manager either, talk directly to the owner or general manager.
If you get a junk yard engine, I think you will regret it. You. will be far better off, bang for the buck, repairing your engine if the engine actually needs new gaskets. But I am not convinced that the engine really has a problem.
Did anyone fill up the cooling system and then run a test for combustable gasses? That would define a blown head gasket. The test I believe costs about $30-60 for the test supplies and about an hour labor. A simple test would be to first fill the cooling system, bleed it if needed and then watch for bubbles coming up, If you see a trail of bubbles, then you can skip the test because the head gasket(s) are likely blown.
I didn’t want to do this in the first place so I held back, but exactly how much oil was your engine loosing between oil changes? Who told you that you needed new valve cover gaskets. The money you spent on this already would have bought a LOT of oil, so if you weren’t loosing more than a quart every gas fill, it wasn’t worth doing. I am concerned that the gasket change was the first upsell you fell for.
Now the dealer is sending you down the rabbit hole for a second time and it will be more costly than the first. And it will get even worse over time. Used engines typically only come with a 90 day warranty and that does not include labor. How much do you want to spend for a 91 day engine? A quality repair on your current engine should yield you at least another 100k miles, and that is just gaskets and timing belt/chain and other easy to get at parts while the engine is out and apart. Do not get a valve grind or new rings, that will actually shorten the life of the current engine.