# A new GM steering issue...but no recall **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 11, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618 "2015-04-11T02:16:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/1 "2015-04-11T02:16:37Z")
Hopefully The NHTSA will issue a recall, even if GM doesn’t think that it is necessary. > **[G.M. Deems Steering Issue Unworthy of Recall](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/business/gm-steering-issue-pushes-automakers-limits.html?emc=edit_au_20150410&nl=afternoonupdate&nlid=56485703)** > > General Motors’ handling of a recent problem in its vehicles sheds new light on what the company and regulators consider an issue worthy of a recall. ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/2 "2015-04-11T02:53:57Z")
**_This Knee-Jerk Recall Mania And Big Brother Intervention Has To Have Some Limits. Should Car Manufacturers Be Required To Basically Warranty Cars Forever? Costs Will Be Passed Down To All Car Buyers, Making New Cars Less Affordable Than The Prices That Keep Them Out Of Reach For 50% Of Americans, Already._** I purchased ~~a~~ two GM cars, used, that both had a “sticking” steering issue. I noticed this while test-driving and didn’t like it. I got the seller to discount the price of the cars enough to cover the cost of replacement of a steering universal shaft on both cars, which I still own. Every car company pumps out cars with different problems that will develop. Unless it’s a glaring safety defect, that even the auto maker acknowledges, lets’ keep Big Brother out of it! **Hopefully The NHTSA will issue a recall, even if GM doesn’t think that it is necessary.** Who’s paying? The Government? GM? No, consumers! Let’s get more information before we jump on the hysterical bandwagon. _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/3 "2015-04-11T02:56:50Z")
I’m presuming these vehicles use some kind of electric or electric assist steering. If so, it’s puzzling why the steering wheel would be programmed to stick in the straight ahead position (or any other position) in the first place. I can’t come up with a reason why making the steering wheel difficult to turn would be necessary or desirable in any driving condition. I guess it is possible it isn’t actually the software that does it, it’s actually an unanticipated hardware issue, but software is being used to fix it. If that’s the case, it’s more understandable how it could happen. In any event it seems software-based electric steering needs better verification at the design and testing stage. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/4 "2015-04-11T03:07:10Z")
CSA–Did you actually **read** the details in the article? You are of the belief that “Big Brother Intervention Has To Have Some Limits”, and you ask, "Should Car Manufacturers Be Required To Basically Warranty Cars Forever? " Apparently your definition of “forever” is very different from my definition of “forever”, as this defect has been reported in multiple samples of **2013-14** Buick Verano, Chevrolet Cruze and Chevrolet Malibu models. So…you don’t think that owners of nearly-new cars have the right to have this defect rectified before it results in an accident? I just don’t know what to say if that is actually how you feel about this type of situation. I’m not being “hysterical”, and I am merely passing along reports of a problem with **nearly-new** cars that GM is apparently not willing to deal with at this point–until a customer actually complains. ---
**Author:** ![common-sense-answer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/common-sense-answer/32/716_2.png) [@common-sense-answer](https://community.cartalk.com/u/common-sense-answer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/5 "2015-04-11T03:23:16Z")
**_Were These Cars Not Covered By A Reasonable 36 Month/36,000 Mile Bumper-To Bumper Warranty (And A 60 Month/100,000 Mile Drive Train Warranty) ?_** Consumers have choices. If this warranty coverage isn’t adequate or a particular car company sells shoddy merchandise then nobody is forcing a purchase. Sure, I read the article and I can’t tell if the cars won’t steer or it they will if the wheel is turned. Before I demand action, I’ll wait for more info. I could decide a recall is in order. I buy GM cars and want them to remain affordable. **I own 2 GM cars eligible for the Recall involving the stupid key problem. I haven’t taken either of them in for this silly recall.** _ **CSA** _ ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/6 "2015-04-11T03:33:05Z")
CSA, I find it hard to understand how you consider this acceptable. I submit that a whole history of this type of behavior by GM has contributed considerably to their going bankrupt while other manufacturers have prospered. IMHO we should never have bailed them out. IMHO bankruptcy without a bailout is the only chance they had to change their ways. It’s becoming more clear over time that change will not come from inside the company. If you like GM cars, you should want them to change. The next time they go bankrupt they may not have an administration in place willing to use billions of our tax dollars to bail them out. I remind you that according to the CBO we lost ten billion tax dollars on that deal. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/7 "2015-04-11T04:37:20Z")
When an extremely small number of complaints are registered, I often wonder if it is an excuse for driver problems, not car problems. It could be either; it just makes me wonder. I don’t know why the Times brought up the brake line issues. I think GM has a valid point about the owner keeping up with maintenance. The NY Times seems like much less of believable than they were 10 or 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Cliff51](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/cliff51/32/120_2.png) [@Cliff51](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Cliff51)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:16am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/8 "2015-04-11T06:16:35Z")
[CSA](http://community.cartalk.com/profile/948604/common%20sense%20answer) said: > “Consumers have choices. If this warranty coverage isn’t adequate or a particular car company sells shoddy merchandise then nobody is forcing a purchase”. He is absolutely right about this point. I bought a new 1980 Pontiac Phoenix, and that POS was the worst vehicle I’ve ever owned. What was worse than the car was the service department and the factory - they were unable to keep it running. Since then I’ve bought 6 new and 5 used vehicles, and not one of them was made by GM. That Pontiac was a $1500 lesson and I learned it well. ---
**Author:** ![meanjoe75fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meanjoe75fan/32/552_2.png) [@meanjoe75fan](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meanjoe75fan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:29am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/9 "2015-04-11T07:29:51Z")
“When an extremely small number of complaints are registered, I often wonder if it is an excuse for driver problems, not car problems. It could be either; it just makes me wonder.” +1 From what I gathered, the problem is that the electric PS will not _immediately_ assist after the car has been driven in a straight line for a while. Part of being a competent driver is anticipating, in advance, most emergency and abnormal scenarios you might encounter, having a plan already in place prior, and _knowing how your car will behave in such condition_. If you don’t know how you car reacts without PS/PB…find a vacant parking lot and find out. Do it tonight! Commercial pilots spend HOURS practicing “emergency and abnormal procedures” training; I should hope CDL drivers do, too. In the sim, I had to deal with engine failures, fires, full loss of redundant hydraulic controls. If I crashed the sim, it was because _I_ lacked skill, not the messed-up condition the sim was in: I was expected to handle that. A partial (or even total) loss of power steering is a VERY low hurdle to clear; what is amazing is how nobody puts the slightest bit of culpability on poorly-skilled drivers! I’ll state it directly: if you cannot handle a PS loss scenario without bending metal–you’re not fit to possess a driver’s license.\* Rememebr the “6 P’s”: _Prior Planning Prevents P### Poor Performance!_ \*(Excepting those with bone-fide physical limitations–though they should have endorsements saying “POWER ASSISTED VEHICLES ONLY.”) ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:38am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/10 "2015-04-11T07:38:23Z")
But… but… if the problem here is failure to be able to control a vehicle when it loses power assist, and you feel drivers who cannot should have special stamps on their licenses, why would you want to restrict them to only power assisted vehicles? Wouldn’t that restrict them to only vehicles that they will NOT be able to control if the engine dies? ---
**Author:** ![jesmed1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/jesmed1/32/2097_2.png) [@jesmed1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jesmed1)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:39am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/11 "2015-04-11T07:39:36Z")
Yet another reason to dislike electric power steering. ---
**Author:** ![meanjoe75fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meanjoe75fan/32/552_2.png) [@meanjoe75fan](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meanjoe75fan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/12 "2015-04-11T07:42:13Z")
^Yeah, that and the burning Ecoboosts (that were later tied to “water pump on demand” to save fuel) are what I call the “CAFE learning curve.” The Cutting Edge is the Bleeding Edge! @TSMB, People who are too infirm to control a car once it has lost PS ought to not drive cars without it. People who _don’t know how_ to drive in that scenario ought not be driving anything. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/13 "2015-04-11T07:45:13Z")
I’m with you on that one, jesmed. I think that in the coming years we’re going to see a lot of systems in automobiles of questionable safety as the manufacturers struggle to meet the unrealistic demands of the out-of-control EPA. ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/14 "2015-04-11T07:45:58Z")
I can’t fault GM on rusty brake lines as that occurs with every make and model under the sun. The Feds could require that all brake lines be made of stainless steel but where does that stop? The next step would be requiring that all suspension and steering components be made of stainless so as to avoid rust related issues. This would start getting expensive and drag that old cost/benefit snag into play… A relative of mine has a GM car under a Recall for the steering issue and 1.5 years later is still waiting for GM to come up with the parts to actually do the Recall. Like I told them, the passage of time thins the herd of eligible cars… ---
**Author:** ![db4690](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/db4690/32/2583_2.png) [@db4690](https://community.cartalk.com/u/db4690)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:52am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/15 "2015-04-11T07:52:00Z")
In my opinion, loss of power steering is a bad situation You can’t expect every driver to expect their power steering to fail at any and all times, and be ready for it at any and all times Shame on GM for being penny pinchers . . . again If the problem can be fixed with a software patch, then get all the affected cars back to the dealer for the fix. If GM plays their cards right, they could issue a news release, calling it a voluntary action, which was not required by law 😠 ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:02am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/16 "2015-04-11T08:02:57Z")
Meanjoe, your post is contradictory. Cars with manual steering have different lock-to-lock ratios. Cars designed for power assist that lose the assist are far harder to steer than cars designed with manual steering. If someone is unable to steer a car whose power assist disappears, and your concern is that they not be subjected to that condition, logic would dictate that you’d want to restrict them to only cars without power steering. In any event, I’m not impressed with GM’s handling of this. And it suggests to me that at GM it’s business as usual. Hopefully we’ll have an administration in 2016 that has more integrity and doesn’t waste tens of billions of our tax dollars shielding them from the consequences of their own behavior. ---
**Author:** ![meanjoe75fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meanjoe75fan/32/552_2.png) [@meanjoe75fan](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meanjoe75fan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:19am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/17 "2015-04-11T08:19:10Z")
“You can’t expect every driver to expect their power steering to fail at any and all times, and be ready for it at any and all times” I’ve had my engine stall out on me, unexpectedly, more than once…what can I say, I drive cheap cars! (Plus I used to be cavalier re: fuel status.) Never even began to worry–an annoyance more than anything scary. One a 1-10 “Pucker Factor” scale, I’d give it a 2.5. Spent more time worrying about the restart than maintaining control. Now, high-speed loss of directional control in inclement weather…about an 8.5. You’ll be clenching the seat hard enough that they’ll need a prybar to separate you! Not sure what a perfect 10 would be–possibly snapped axle, with simultaneous engine fire, that causes you to spill hot coffee in your lap. Yep! (It just occurred to me–the “this doesn’t happen with hydraulics” overlooks the scenario of a loose accessory belt causing PS to drop out when used heavily. Had that one happen to me in somebody else’s second-hand U-Haul truck. Symptomatically identical to the GM issue, although it tends to be a low-speed problem.) ---
**Author:** ![missileman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/missileman/32/1366_2.png) [@missileman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/missileman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/18 "2015-04-11T17:30:02Z")
**“I’m not being “hysterical”, and I am merely passing along reports of a problem with nearly-new cars that GM is apparently not willing to deal with at this point–until a customer actually complains.”** I get your point but enough with the GM bashing at every opportunity. I know of a **Ford** problem with steering in the “E” series van that has been on-going since the 1990’s. It’s the wander and drifting problem that plagued both the 4th and 5th generation E-series vans. It’s been jokingly called the “Ford dance” or the “left/right shuffle.” Thankfully…Ford pulled the plug on E-series vans after the 2014 model year. You can find countless “fixes” by alignment shops but none of them actually work because this was a design defect that was never corrected. Plenty of complaints but no recalls either. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/19 "2015-04-11T17:36:36Z")
**"I get your point but enough with the GM bashing at every opportunity"** I think that you may have confused me with somebody else, missileman. Have I ever made negative comments about GM? Sure I have–as have most of the members of this forum, with the exception of one or two GM cheerleaders–but I am absolutely not somebody “who bashes GM at every opportunity”. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618/20 "2015-04-11T18:32:36Z")
We have a right to bash them. They took billions of our tax dollars… and this behavior is what we got for it? [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-new-gm-steering-issue-but-no-recall/89618.md?page=2)