# A big hurray **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 13, 2025, 3:25am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265 "2025-05-13T03:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vipergg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/50afbb/32.png) [@vipergg](https://community.cartalk.com/u/vipergg)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 3:25am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/1 "2025-05-13T03:25:30Z")
Was just reading the govt is going to can the start stop tech forced on us . Either get rid of it or make it so you can permanently shut it off . Maybe they will get rid of AFM while they are at it . ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 12:17pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/2 "2025-05-13T12:17:24Z")
> [@vipergg](#): > > the govt is going to can the start stop tech forced on us Q: If this was “forced on us” by “the govt”, then why are there cars and pickups that _don’t_ have automatic stop/start technology? A: This feature is **not** required, but most manufacturers have opted to use it in order to (slightly) boost their fuel economy. Auto stop/start is an annoyance to most people, but its inclusion isn’t the result of a government mandate. Perhaps the saddest part of this tale is that the current head of The EPA apparently thinks that auto stop/start is required by federal regulations. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 12:41pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/3 "2025-05-13T12:41:31Z")
Just for those who don’t know AFM stands for Active Fuel managment. It is a feature that deactivates some cylinders in an engine during light load situations to increase miles per gallon. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/4 "2025-05-13T12:46:40Z")
> [@VOLVO-V70](#): > > Just for those who don’t know AFM stands for Active Fuel managment. It is a feature that deactivates some cylinders in an engine during light load situations to increase miles per gallon. … and, like auto stop/start, it is NOT required by any government regulations. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 1:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/5 "2025-05-13T13:00:06Z")
Note that hybrid cars use auto start/stop to switch between battery and ICE propulsion. I test drove a hybrid minivan in 2019 and the witch between battery and ICE was flawless. I had a BMW rental in Austria in 2011. It had auto start/stop (and a manual transmission). At first it was annoying, but after I got used to it in a day or two, it didn’t bother me anymore. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 1:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/6 "2025-05-13T13:13:18Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > hybrid cars use auto start/stop to switch between battery and ICE propulsion. I test drove a hybrid minivan in 2019 and the witch between battery and ICE was flawless. That includes PHEVs. When I drive in HV mode and I am starting off from a traffic light or a stop sign, the vehicle runs as an EV until it gets up to ~12 mph, and then it activates the gas engine. And, the starter isn’t actually used because the gas engine is given a “rolling start”. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/7 "2025-05-13T14:07:46Z")
You can disable most of them with simple plug n play harnesses… (hybrids aside lol) And most come with the trim tool needed… Just one of many many place that sell them… [https://www.amazon.com/s?srs=120387561011](https://www.amazon.com/s?srs=120387561011) EDITed to say, that an aftermarket disabler does NOT permanently disable the start/atop function, it only hold memory of the last setting and can be turned back on with a touch of the button… It just keeps you from having to push the button every time… ## #Is this legal for on-road use on emissions-controlled vehicles? ​_Check your local laws, but in the United States the product is legal. The Autostop Eliminator simply leverages the existing shut-off button built into the vehicle. The function provided is offered as a convenience to prevent a driver from having to press the auto start-stop button after each ignition cycle_ ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/8 "2025-05-13T14:30:26Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > its inclusion isn’t the result of a government mandate Yes, it is not mandated, but if it is installed, it cannot have a permanent Off button, only one that disables it at every startup. That IS mandated by the government This is exactly like mandated stability controls. There is no permanent Off button but manufacturers can include a way to turn it off at each key-on if the driver desires. ---
**Author:** ![VOLVO-V70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@VOLVO-V70](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VOLVO-V70)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 2:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/9 "2025-05-13T14:33:23Z")
The off button for stop/start is easy to use on the touch screen on our 2024 Subaru Outback . ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/10 "2025-05-13T14:58:39Z")
> [@VOLVO-V70](#): > > The off button for stop/start is easy to use on the touch screen on our 2024 Subaru Outback . The ECT PWR (electronic controlled transmission power) button is very easy to push on my truck also, but sometimes I forget and then have to look for it while driving, safer to just have it set one way or another per your preference… I am going to install a plug n play kit for that later this month hopefully… BTW (cause I know someone will ask) the reason for doing it on the 3rd gen Tacoma’s is due to the gear hunting program issue they are known for, hit the button and problem mostly gone, or spend some $$$ for a TCM tune that all but eliminates it all together… ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/11 "2025-05-13T15:09:57Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > Yes, it is not mandated, but if it is installed, it cannot have a permanent Off button, only one that disables it at every startup. That is correct, which means that you know much more on this topic than the guy who is currently in charge of The EPA. ---
**Author:** ![asemaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@asemaster](https://community.cartalk.com/u/asemaster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 3:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/12 "2025-05-13T15:13:50Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > you know much more on this topic than the guy who is currently in charge of The EPA. Also more than the poster who created this topic. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 3:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/13 "2025-05-13T15:47:21Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > you know much more on this topic than the guy who is currently in charge of The EPA Thanks for the credit… Lee Zeldin’s actual words are; `* "Start/stop technology: where your car dies at every red light so companies get a climate participation trophy," Zeldin said. "EPA approved it, and everyone hates it, so we're fixing it."` Notice he did not use the word “mandate” but approved. Per Axios’ article; `The EPA doesn't mandate stop-start technology, but it provides extra fuel economy credits to automakers that adopt it.` And those fuel economy credits are important to meeting the increased EPA emissions mandates passed during the Obama admin. ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/14 "2025-05-13T16:00:47Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > so we’re fixing it How is he going to “fix” it? Is he going to make it illegal for vehicle manufacturers to include that technology? ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/bing/32/4619_2.png) [@bing](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 4:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/15 "2025-05-13T16:20:51Z")
Lipstick on a pig and all. Fine line between mandated and coerced. Lots of things are no5 part of the federal powers granted by the constitution, but money buys conformance. Sad part is the public conforms and says oh it’s not so bad. Our governor once called them lemmings. Right track anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/16 "2025-05-13T16:40:13Z")
> [@VDCdriver](#): > > How is he going to “fix” it? Remove the incentive, I’d guess, or allow manufacturers to install an “always off” button. Until it is announced, none of us know what the “fix” will be. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/17 "2025-05-13T19:45:33Z")
See post 7. It appears that auto start/stop can default to off with the device that @davesmopar discusses. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/18 "2025-05-13T19:54:46Z")
> [@jtsanders](#): > > See post 7. It appears that auto start/stop can default to off with the device I am aware of those devices. That technically could be an EPA violation but the article posted below from our buddy John Goreham got an indistinct answer from the EPA. Considering how many EPA people were on the call and how long it took to answer seem is was under their radar, for now. > **[Disabling Your Vehicle’s Stop-Start System – Legal Or Against the Law](https://www.torquenews.com/1083/disabling-your-vehicle-s-stop-start-system-legal-or-illegal)** > > There are ways to permanently disable stop-start systems. We asked the EPA if it was legal to do so. ---
**Author:** ![davesmopar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/davesmopar/32/41750_2.png) [@davesmopar](https://community.cartalk.com/u/davesmopar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 8:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/19 "2025-05-13T20:09:20Z")
That article is 6 years old, here is a more current one from _Last updated February 26, 2024_… > **[Autostop Eliminator Clean Air Act Compliance Information](https://www.autostopeliminator.com/pages/clean-air-act-and-emissions)** > > The Autostop Eliminator fully complies with the Federal Clean Air Act & does not alter the emissions of your vehicle. Find out more about our compliance here _**The Autostop Eliminator technology does not override any programming nor does it change the emissions output on the vehicle. It only overrides the switch from “auto on” to “user control”. The Autostop Eliminator device is fully compliant with the Clean Air Act under the provisions of the [EPA’s Tampering Policy](https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/epatamperingpolicy-enforcementpolicyonvehicleandenginetampering.pdf) dated November 23rd, 2020**_ ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 8:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265/20 "2025-05-13T20:33:08Z")
> [@davesmopar](#): > > here is a more current one This was written by the sellers of the device. It is their claim that it does not violate the act… but is that the EPA’s understanding? Nowhere in the text does it say it is “EPA approved.” The link to EPA’s Tampering Policy makes no direct mention about stop-start defeat devices. A SEMA article indicates that the EPA does not have stop/start defeat devices on its “target list” but I can find no official EPA comment about them, pro or con. If my car had stop-start tech in it, I’d install one of those defeat devices in a heartbeat. I HATE stop-start so I am all for the ability to turn it off permanently if I choose. [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/a-big-hurray/200265.md?page=2)