Don’t forget that the crv has a 5 speed automatic that keeps the engine in its power range when there is a need for it. When it does fall off the power band, it can drop a small gap to a lower gear to keep producing power. The old v6 with a 3 speed can afford to fall off the power band as it had enough torque to pick itself up.
The trend is moving toward small engine augmented by 8+ speed transmission. The upside to this is a lighter smaller power train and an engine that doesn’t gup fuel when while cruising.
It’s hard on the car when constantly accelerating after slowing down frequently or pushing air aside going at triple digit speed. Cruising along at 65 and flying pass your v6 Camry requires only a light foot on the throttle. The combustion pressure is relatively low. That’s simple physics. Engineering is not logical when you don’t have the background knowledge.
"The trend is moving toward small engine augmented by 8+ speed transmission. "
I can’t imagine the shifting going on when someone leaves the selector in drive. I know there is a lot of doubt about the cvt’s durability but consider an 8 speed and the shifting going on, almost continuously when driving less then then 65 mph. We have a six speed auto and D should be locked out below 50 mph with the selector on 5 or the thing down and up shifts all the time. An 8 would be much worse and the smaller motor worse still. Electric drive motors that would replace a transmission with one forward gear are beginning to look really good.
@MikeInNH
I think most people actually think the tractor motor is some great torque machine. It isn’t nor does it have to be. The tractor motor is about efficiency, longevity, durability and horsepower. The central part of the power delivery of a Tractor is t’s transmission and the tractor is actually physically built around it. Tractor power is measured in horsepower and any gas motor that produces 35 hp will produce the same results as the 1.8L diesel in mine. But, a gas motor with the same hosepower won’t be as efficient, it will require more care, it will be less safe, not as dependable and it won’t last the life of the tractor which can be 40 to 50 years. Tractor motors are not great torque machines.
The transmission gearing produces all the torque necessary to do the job the tractor was designed for. If you are one gear off, in a manual transmission tractor in some jobs, the tractor stalks out easily…that’s great torque ? Hardly. My manual trans tractor had three ranges of 4 speeds each for a total of 12 speeds. With a top speed of 12 mph, you don’t need torque, you need just enough hp that matches the weight and traction capabilities if the tractors while driving the attachments and running the hydraulics. That’s ALL about the matching right amount of hp to match the tractor and not about gobs of torque. Too much hp or torque in an under matched tractor makes for a very dangerous piece of machinery. Mine weights over nearly 4 k with both attachments and with 1.8 L 35 hp, it’s about right. But the torque it produces is no where near what a 1.8L Corolla gas motor produces. Not even close ! If you replaced my motor with a similar sized Corolla, it would break the transmision in no time if it didn’t kill me before that. It is way too powerful with too much hp AND TORQUE.
When tractor owners talk about their tractors, there is never any mention about torque. It’s all about hp and driving hydraulic pumps and gearing which requires adaquately matched but never too much hp.
" But, surprisingly at least in today’s world, most tractor motors are measured by horsepower with no mention of torque". @dagosa–I thought you had figured out by now that I don’t live in today’s world. Back in the days when I ran a Farmall F-12 tractor from the 1930s, we didn’t have hydrostatic drive. Even the later Ford tractor I drove made right after WW II was straight gear driven. I don’t think it ran above 2000 rpm, but my memory may not be right. There was an hour meter that recorded the number of hours the motor ran at a specified rpm.
I did have a yard tractor, a 15 hp MTD back in the 1970s when I had some acreage in the country. That unit had a hydrostatic transmission and it worked very well. I had a rotary mower on it. I also had a little 1 bottom plow that I used to plow up a garden plot each spring. As I remember I set the throttle at the top of the range for the 15 hp Briggs and Stratton engine and set the speed with the hydrostatic control lever.
I worked for a person who had a 1947 Jeep CJ-2 that I drove. The 4 cylinder engine did not rev up very high, but it did have plenty of torque. I think top speed may have been 60 mph.
Also, I don’t think the engines in the VW Beetles of the late 1950s through the 1960s ran at a very high RPM. The engines in these VWs seem to hold up longer than the engines in the Morris Minor cars made in the same time period.
I still think that the number of cylinders is less important in determining the power than how the engine is set up. The valve timing is critical to the torque peak. When I bought the 2003 Toyota 4Runner which we still have, there was a choice of a V-6 or a V-8 engine. The V-6 which I bought had a higher rated horsepower than the V-8. That wasn’t the reason I bought the V-6–the V-6 had a timing chain whereas the V-8 had a timing belt that needed to be replaced periodically.
The torque at the output shaft of a 4 Runner with a 4 speed transmission capable of over 100 mph has to be dramatically greater then a tractor with a 12 speed capable of a top speed of 10 mph. There are lawn tractors today ith gas motors with MORE torque then the old tractors of many decades ago. Their huge displcement motors produced very little torque compared to motors today. Huge displacement motors of yesterday were really poor motors compared to those today and produced little power, but had big fly wheels, necessary for two cylinder large displacement motors. . The reason your Jeep " appeared to have lots of pulling power, was the gearing. It only went 60 mph. It still had less torque then that of a “good” Yaris motor, about 105 ft lbs. The torque produced at the wheels is more the result of matched gearing in low top speed vehicals like jeeps and tractors.
You don’t have all that torque available to you with the 4runner at all RPMS. Maximum torque for the 4runner is around 5000rpms.
I’d like to see the 4runner pull a 4’ wide stump out of the ground. I rented a tractor from United Rental about 10 years ago…and it had no problem pulling that stump.
@MikeInNH
If the 4 Runner had the right gearing, traction and weight, it’s motor is more capable then the motor in my neighbors m90 Kubota. It doesn’t matter what rpm the motor has to spin at to deliver the require hp. The maximum torque numbers for tractors are MUCH lower then that for the average automobile or truck, even at the same given rpm. Torque at the wheel of a tractor is result of mechanical advantage of the gearing and motor horsepower not the motor itself.
The motors on ALL general purpose tractors are much less powerful in both horsepower and torque then even the average car. Even if their displacements are equal to them. They run under powered for durability, not because they have more torque. They don’t. The test of torque is acceleration. The rental accelerated Pretty poorly I bet. don’t confuse pulling power with the torque of the motor used. Think of a tractor with no more power then what’s necessary aidedby mechanical leverage, the transmission ; like a guy with a come along winch who can also pull a car out of a ditch or move a stump.
Yep the tractors are a little different beast,but now some real beastly tractors are showing up(think "Fendt"awesome machine with awesome capibility,about the old Jeeps-a good setup(when they took those things and added a buick V-6(scary in a hurry) now a real good swap for an older Jeep I’ve been told,was the 90HP Chevy 2 four cylinder a pretty good update I hear,a bit more power and a more up to date engine without seriously overpowering the vehicle- When you see these newer JD tractors cruising at 25 mph and above uphill,downhill etc,you got to know these engineers are starting to get serious about power,a big drawback on the older tractors was the poor brakes and steering,those old workhorses were designed as draft animals,not race horses and boy did they last with good maintenence-Kevin
I have an L3400 with a 35 hp diesel. I have a friend with an L3130 or (it could be a 3240) with a 31 hp diesel. His is a newer model with a smaller motor with fewer hp and less torque. But, the tractor is much bigger does more work in less time and can lift more at the bucket and rear lift, and can tow much more. The reason is simple. It has a newer, better designed transmission and hydraulics which gives it better mechanical advantage. It’s all about the transmission and the mechanical advantage it can give a motor. It’s like asking two people to lift a stone and giving one of them a longer stick to pry it out. Tractors are more capable because of their improved hydraulics and better mechanical advantage. Some motors are bigger, some are smaller. But, even some of the larger common tractors have motors with less torque and power then almost any car you see driving up and down the road…,including a Yaris.
Have to agree with dagosa: with an on-road vehicle, you’re doing a different set of tasks: You have to accelerate from a stop at a decent rate, sometimes with a heavy load, but then you also have to cruise at highway speeds and get a reasonable amount of fuel efficiency. To accomplish all of these takes power and a wide range of gearing, making all passenger vehicles except perhaps some SUVs with a low range fairly useless as tractors, despite hundreds of horsepower and lb-feet of torque.
With a tractor, you’re doing most of the work at very low speeds and with a designed constant cruising speed of maybe a few miles per hour if doing something like plowing or seeding. You can gear down even a small, less powerful motor for a high advantage in these tasks and never have to rev it too high. This is why even turn of the last century tractors were useful workhorses, though a lot of them were barely double-digit horsepower and only a bit more torque. (not saying that a modern tractor isn’t a powerful machine) With a block n’ tackle you can move a fully loaded semi with muscle power, but good luck if you have to move that load across the country without a decade to do it. You can move anything with enough leverage and time–you’re trading the speed at which you’re accomplishing the task for mechanical advantage.
Some of you with low range 4 wd get the difference. When in low range in your 4 wd, you are in high range of a tractor built for travel. Now imagine two lower ranges in your 4 wd. That’s the tractor working area. With these lower ranges, yes, a 4wd can start pulling stumps. The difference is, the tractor has a cast iron frame built around the transmission housing so that pulling does little to disturb the integrity of the entire tractor. With super low gear on a relatively weak framed truck, things start to bent, come out of alignment and break. 3 cylinders and a weak durable motor are plenty.
The front axle housing alone on my tractor is three times the width as that on my 4 Runner. It’s built for lots of stress as that housing can support the entire weight of the tractor and any load it can move. Nearly all tractors are built that way and nearly all of the working components have to able to take that stress. No room for suspension systems either. The only one is the spring on your seat and the air(water) in your tires. That’s why their top speeds are so low. You hit a bump at 10 mph, you can easily spin and roll over if you aren’t carefully.
And brakes ? They only exist on the rear wheels and only brake the front wheels when in 4wd. Hills have to be negotiated with lots of care. Be side ways on a hill and raise the 1000lb bucket load about the belt line, you can easily start rolling over. They require lot’s of attention. Bigger motors make them very dangerous. Unlike a car, you need both hands and feet in full working order to drive them. When I recover from my semi anual shoulder surgeries ( it seems) the tractor just sits ther for months till it’s all healed.
More people are killed and maimed perhour of operation on these things then any car. There is little you can do in the way of safety mandates that doesn’t make them less efficient in function. it’s the nature of the beast and why most tractor owners and drivers are super safe car drivers who get what it takes to maintain traction on every vehicle they own. The learning curve is very steep or you get hurt. Boy are they lots of fun to work with !
There is an old saying for tractor drivers. “When things get out of control, drop everything…” That includes the bucket and any attachment on back. It lowers your center of gravity, widens you out and grinds everything to a halt . Then you have time to clean the stain off the seat. Before my smart Kubota dealer would sell me a tractor, a rep paid a visit to our place to see what prep recommendations had to be made. This was done in the line of safety and 4wd and loaded tires were mandatory.
The torque at the output shaft of a 4 Runner with a 4 speed transmission capable of over 100 mph has to be dramatically greater then a tractor with a 12 speed capable of a top speed of 10 mph.
Yes…at HIGHER RPM’s. But NOT at lower RPM’s. You gear the 4runner down to pull the stump…then the vehicle won’t be much use on the road.
The 4.0 4Runner v6 produces it’s maximum torque it’s true at higher rpm. But, at just 1000 rpm it produces 78% or 220 ft lbs and at 2000 rpm, the beginning normal operating rpm of most tractors , it makes 88% or 240 ft lbs of torque. My neighbors m90, a very large tractor by anyone’s stretch, has nearly the same displacement, but only 90 hp with about 150 lbs of torque at 2000 rpm. The 4Runner motr is way more powerful and probably too powerful for this huge tractor that outweighs a 4 Runner by a ton or more with attachments. Even with the exact same gearing, the 4Runner motor run at just 2000 rpm, has too much power for the tractor to be safely operated. No, tractor motrs are comparable weaklings no matter what way you cut it. They just last for a three decades.