The engineers are NOT the only ones in the maintenance schedule. Accountants and marketing have to get their two cents in also. By extending the intervals it shows a vehicle that has a lower operating cost.
We have to get the cart and horse in the right order. Accountants and marketing provide their inputs up front during the requirements definition phase of the development effort. The engineers then must design to meet those requirements. They don’t just come in after the design is complete and proclaim what the maintenance intervals should be. So in reality, the engineers may not have dictated what those intervals will be but have designed and verified as best they can, that the design will meet them.
During requirements definition, there is a lot of give and take. The marketing folks may request unrealistic intervals to make them more appealing than the competition. Then engineering responds with feasibility and cost. You want “lifetime” fluids? Here’s what it will cost in terms of development, COGS (materials mainly) and warranty expense…
It all comes down to the definition of lifetime. If lifetime is 150k miles, and then you get rid of it, I think most automatics will do that without ever having a fluid or filter change. Automakers generally aren’t concerned with the second or third owner or the guy who wants to keep a vehicle for 250k miles. Or I wouldn’t think they would be.
I hear that a lot on car boards but I think they have more concern than people usually give them credit. For repairable consumer goods, there is usually an analysis done for warranty costs as well as Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) which is likely to be many multiples of the warranty period. The idea being a negative experience, whether first or subsequent owner, will impact brand perception. If a second owner likes the vehicle, there’s a good chance they may buy your brand new when they are in the market. Look at how Toyota used to market their cars- more Toyotas are still on the road than any other car maker (paraphrased as best I can recall).
I’m a preemptive repair kind of guy. The thing is with the internal water pumps, they are whirling around like crazy for thousands of miles, and if they fail, they take your timing belt and maybe engine with it. So to me, going through the trouble and expense of changing a timing belt and not spending the extra few dollars and a half hour to change the pump is a little foolish. Minimal cost versus high risk. Some win some lose but it would be like pulling the heads and not doing a valve job at the same time.
Maybe. I’m sure manufacturers would love for their cars to last many miles, but I don’t think it’s their primary focus. I believe their primary concern is the first 150k miles. Beyond that, is “all gravy”.
What I mean is, they must be more concerned with “cost of ownership” vs. loooong term reliability, or else they wouldn’t market “sealed for life” transmissions and 10k mile oil change intervals, right? Like you said earlier, compromises are made. I imagine every Toyota engineer would agree that it’s better to change your trans fluid at some point rather than never.
I once heard somewhere that autos were designed for a 150k mile life without any major repairs. I’m not sure how true that is, and I know many vehicles double that mileage. But I guess 150k is about the average for a large repair. It may have actually been Car Talk where I heard the 150k mile design, but it’s been a while and I don’t remember.
The longer you want it to be trouble free generally the more it costs to do so. So there is a tradeoff where the curves meet. Your point about lifetime fluid is certainly valid. I was responding more to the premise they don’t care about second or third owners. They care, but to a point where the ROI no longer makes sense for them.
Gotcha. I think it depends on where the 2nd and 3rd owner comes in regarding the life of the vehicle. I don’t really think GM gives a rip about my two 2005 models with over 150k. They’re old enough and with enough miles that I really couldn’t complain or draw conclusions if something failed. I imagine Toyota would hope my wife’s 2013 Highlander ticked along for a couple more years and hit 150k.
I don’t mean to say they just want to get you out of warranty. But 2x warranty? I figure beyond that, they’re not terribly interested.
Sadly my Pontiac is pushing 150K and I’m not seeing much out there to replace it under about $30K. Our Acura is pushing four years now and based on the piddly trade in we got last time, I’m wondering whether I should buy our Acura for me when we trade. After all it has been meticulously maintained since new and I trust the owner (me). So I’m wondering if I did that, would I be the second owner or still the first? It’s mainly what my wife drives so it kinda ends up hers and mine for cars. That’s sort of what we used to do-buy a new car for the wife and I take the hand me down except they are a little more expensive now.
Don’t feel bad. I have two 14 year old GM’s, about 150k on the truck, about 170k on the Buick. My wife’s Highlander is a little over 120k at 6 years old. I keep telling her to drive my truck or the Buick on short trips. She’s going to pass my old GM’s in mileage if she doesn’t. I was kinda hoping the next new vehicle would be bought for me. But I don’t think it’s going to work that way.
My dad has an 01 F-150 with almost 150k. He keeps toying with the idea of buying a new one. He commented Saturday that the new trucks are really nice, but they’re not $40k nicer than his 01. I must say, I kind of have to agree with him.
I think the new truck price shocks him more than the new truck size. Knowing my dad, he’ll shop for a couple of years, stress over it, then eventually just show up in a new truck. Then he’ll have buyer’s remorse and wonder if he should’ve spent that much money. And he’ll find a few things about the new truck that he doesn’t like. I wish he’d get one, if that’s what he wants. He’s definitely earned it. I don’t recall him ever buying a brand new vehicle solely for himself, although he bought several new vehicles for our family over the years.
Come to think of it, I’m kind of the same as him on all those counts above!