What’s a bit ironic is that while they’re allowing steel piston rings to scrub up aluminum cylinder walls one can attend a service school and often hear that any problem (scratching, pitting, glazing) with the cylinder wall in an aluminum brake master cylinder or clutch master/slave cylinder means it goes to the dumpster; do not attempt to rebuild it. Sounds vaguely famliar…
Honda Blackbird, I haven’t seen this on a Honda, but I have seen it on other cars with as little as 40k miles. But then I haven’t seen a Honda that has sludged up. The idea that this engine could be full of sludge was brought up by someone else here.
Gotcha…I may have brought it up …or no I think I responded to the comment…ran with the idea and its possible remedy’s.
It IS ironic OK44…LOL… You and I know that we are dealing with vastly different metal compounds tho… But of course I do “get it”
This is all a real damn shame…I’m sad to hear this about this Honda actually…I mean I think it took A LOT to get us to this point, dont you guys?
I REALLY REALLY WISH THE OP WOULD RESPOND/POST…The answer to my questions…
ARE YOU OUT THERE?
PLEASE let us know about what you found under the Oil filler cap and inside the filler cap hole/inside valve cover.
We are actually HOPING at this point that you see something like “Coffee Grounds wet with Hersheys Chocolate Syrup” LOL…Sounds appetizing, No?
LET US KNOW… LET US KNOW…IF SO…We could be talking about severe Oil Sludge in the engine/piston rings…etc…which may be able to be broken up or dissolved by the “Motor Flush”/Kerosene in the engine oil…to possibly break free the stuck or sludged up piston rings.
PLEASE FILL US IN MY FRIEND !
I wonder how much time elapsed between those 7000 mile oil changes.
More than a year is bad. Six months would be OK.
Keith is correct about the possibility of oil drain holes being clogged. That’s something I’ve seen on a number of cars; the make is irrelevant. The common deonominator was lack of regular oil changes. Oil pools around the valve guide bosses, and manifold vacuum being a very strong force, the suction would pull oil in even if the valve seals were good.
One dealer I worked for bought about 35 fleet Chevys, all with 30-40k miles on them, and every single one of them smoked badly. In between customer cars a mechanic would go grab one out of the back lot and clean it up to some degree.
All of those cars suffered the same problem; a badly sludged up valve train with the oil drain holes clogged. This was a nasty job but eventually they were all cleaned up and the smoke went away. (Not that I would want to own one of those things because they were still damaged goods IMO.)
The smoke from these cars was all blue but I also see the point about gray smoke as I’ve seen the color of the smoke vary. I’ve just never taken time to think about the why of it.
OH YEAH…I completely forgot about the valve train being overfull with oil and then the PCV could then suck it up and into the intake…Again the end result would be SUPER DUPER SMOKE SCREEN though… STILL no mention of this from the OP… It would NOT go unnoticed I can near guarantee that. I mean you wouldn’t be able to see an 18 wheeler in your rear view mirror if this were the case.
Really wish the OP would chime in…as we are basically just sitting on our Bar Stools discussing “What ifs at this point”
OK4450 I think the color variation is due to the way the oil is dealt with in the combustion chamber…when it comes in thru an intake valve it is mixed with the fuel air charge and then “lit up” during the power stroke…and I guess that pretty well burns it up producing the Gray smoke…when it leaks pas the oil ring I think it is spread out all over hot cylinder walls and smokes up due to the heat…like pouring oil on a hot Header the Oil smokes up like crazy, but isnt fully consumed.
Thats my theory anyway…Does this make sense to you guys? I’m fairly certain that there are two or maybe more modes of producing Oil smoke…My last intimate encounter with it was…Valve seals…produced Gray…Oil rings was Blue.
What do you think?
“SUPER DUPER SMOKE SCREEN” Not necessarily. I did a Chevy once that did not put out visible smoke. It was in the range that the OP is in, about 500 miles/qt. The car did not pass smog and thats how it got caught. The car was owned by an old lady, family friend. She tended to neglect oil changes. I fixed it so she could have a car to drive to work.
I mean if the pcv is sucking excess oil into the combustion chambers…you would def get Super smoke… Now I don’t know what scenario the OP has that is avoiding the smoke but still burning… But if you sucked it right into the pcv line…you’d have smoke mon, I promise… Oh well… This is getting puzzling methinks… What would eat up this much oil and NOT smoke a ton? Other than a leak… and they should be able to find that, I mean C’mon…
If the converter was gutted one would probably find a lesser percentage of that oil coked onto the substrate. The majority of the lost oil would have been hardened to soot by the high converter temps and blown out the tailpipe as solid particulates.
It’s a never ending cycle until the converter becomes so clogged the engine can barely run anymore.
“I mean if the pcv is sucking excess oil into the combustion chambers…you would def get Super smoke”
It doesn’t get sucked in by the PCV valve. The PCV valve on most vehicles, Honda included is in the top of the valve cover. The oil get sucked in around the valve guides.
The oil drain back holes are not completely plugged up, if they were, the engine would last about 3 minutes. They just get blocked up to the point that they restrict the return of the oil to the point that it starts to build up high enough to pool around the valve guides.
OH…right…Jeez… if it ever did suck it in thru the pcv that’d mean it was backing up something major, I think we both agree on that…then if it DID get pulled into the pcv you would have smoke a plenty…lol…ask me how I know…lol… Ive done it…has no choice but to smoke… But why am I arguing with you about this Keith? LOL… In either case I think we both have valid points.
So you are saying that it is going thru the valve seals or thru where the valve guide pushes thru the head? The valve guides are pressed in the head and it would be far more likely to go thru the seal… But if you say so… Either way the result would be the same…doesn’t matter where it goes thru the valve area…and why do you say we wouldn’t have smoke in either scenario? I say we would. No? Do you say no Keith? If so why? I honestly don’t understand…so I’m asking.
The OP needs to tell us if she has smoke out the pipe or a leak…I mean its gotta be either or I think. I wont argue with you any more Keith as I respect your knowledge and we are just arguing between us for fun I think really…I know you know what you are talking about as I see your posts and agree with you many x. I just get confused about the no smoke type of oil consumption…In that case I swear it is a leak.
Most valve seals act like umbrellas so if the valve stem where it enters into the valve guide is immersed in oil, it will get sucked in. If the valve stems and guides are tight, it wont draw enough oil to make much smoke, especially if the seals are in good shape.
If the valve guides were worn out, and the seals bad, it would suck more oil and smoke. If it ever did sucked in through the PCV valve, the smoke would be real thick. But at a quart/500 miles, that wont be a lot of smoke. 50mi/qt would be a lot.
The OP got tired of this 3 days ago…
Yes its a bit of bashing of a car company mixed with good ideas. Seriously this is one car with either a defective motor, lax owner, bad from the factory or sheer bad luck.
While Honda is not perfect they sell $1.2M vehicles/year with few models. Some are bound to be poorly made or defective.
Gotcha Keith, never thought of that really… Makes sense tho.
I can tell you what mine looks like under the oil filler cap…looks like what’s in my tail pipe.
Twinbury, the thread is 6 years old. I’m guessing that the long-gone original poster solved the problem many moons ago.
Motor Flush IS Kerosene.