I got the turbocharger out and I found that the very fine screen in the oil line to the turbo was completely clogged. The turbo shaft is snapped & the compressor turbine shaft nut was rattling around in the turbo intake pipe.
I received a comment from a former SOA tech that only the “better class” dealerships bother to check those screens. The screens are fine enough that they clog with coked / cooked oil. Another “in retrospect” symptom is that I had louder than normal valve click especially at start up since the original overheating issue.
After getting the turbo out and inspecting everything as far as I can tell the sequence of events was:
Bad factory hose clamp to the coolant input to the turbocharger caused engine to not quite to the point of seizing overheat.
1a) This causes the non-synthetic oil to coke up thereby clogging the “banjo bolt” screens on the two cylinder heads
1b) No or low oil flow from the passenger side banjo bolt causes (as far as I can tell from other people that this has happened to and the bad copy of the oil flow diagram I have from SOA) no or low oil flow to the turbo and the upper end of the driver’s side cylinder bank.
After overheat the dealership adds a garden hose style hose-clamp to the coolant inlet at the turbo and calls the issue fixed.
Dealership performs all service up to 46k miles and never checks the banjo bolt screens even after SOA issues a TSB on removing said screens. The new part (banjo bolt) comes without this screen.
3a) The oil always looked cooked. Just a guess but since the turbo was suffering oil starvation from the point of the overheat there was either ALOT of oil cooking going on in the turbo bearings or the seals in the turbo were already blown letting exhaust mingle with oil at that point.
3b) Alternately, or maybe even additionally, the oil starvation to the driver’s side top end may have caused damage that is allowing combustion gasses into the oil system there as well.
Finally, the turbo blows up because the 50k miles of oil starvation causes a catastrophic failure.
Conclusion - Brilliant design and impeccable service there SOA! (Use sufficiently sarcastic voice when reading the conclusion)
I’ll try and get a few pictures posted if anybody is interested.
One quick non-repair related question. Out of curiosity I looked up the blue book values for this car. By way of full disclosure this car has significant body damage and now a blown turbo and potentially cooked engine. The blue book for “Exclent” is 13,325$ and 11,400$ for “Fair” and then it says this:
Poor
* Severe mechanical and/or cosmetic defects and is in poor running condition.
* May have problems that cannot be readily fixed such as a damaged frame or a rusted-through body.
* Branded title (salvage, flood, etc.) or unsubstantiated mileage.
So if I was honestly selling this vehicle to somebody I would of course fully disclose this entire saga. Since I’m an honest man it seems to be I’ll be keeping this car until the engine fries and then I’ll convert it to electric.
My question is this… What is the group-think on the fair market value on this car as even Kelly’s won’t give me an idea? If I were looking for a deal on a 2005 Forester with 60k miles on it with a fried motor I’d pay about $4k or so. Is that to low, to high, or about right?
I’ve read the thread in depth including your last post. Your logic is impeccable, and leads me to believe the dealer has to accept responsibility.
If they were doing the servicing, they should have been aware of the TSB and the banjo bolt screen problem. If someone else was doing the servicing, the TSB would not have required them to seek you out, but you used them in order to prevent this type of oversight and relied on their expertise to be aware of these types of problems.
Between the original problem when new and their neglect of teh TSB, I think you have a solid case.
By the way, I’d check on that possibility of combustion gasses blowing into the oil. A simple com[ression leakdown test should do it. If it is, I’d add that to the list of things they should be responsible for. It definitely could tie in with the original overheating, which was clearly their responsibility.
I wouldn’t consider getting rid of it until battling to get it all repaired a Subie’s expense. Had it not been for the original problem and the TSB I’d argue differently, but I think you have a legit case.
We don’t do a lot of long traveling. Maybe one time every three months to grandma’s about 200mi round trip. Otherwise she treated it like any other housewife would and I doubt she let it run after she was done driving on purpose but most people in NC leave the car running for a few minutes after parking for environmental reasons (either to hot or to cold outside to want to immediately leave the AC / Heat). Usually her drives were not highway and fewer than 15 / 25 miles each way. The car rarely hit max operating temperature (she is a soft driver, not much into the throttle).
Thanks for the compliment… This isn’t the first TSB this particular dealership has missed as it relates to Subaru’s that my family members own so I may be a bit biased in my view but just the facts make me kind of upset about it. I have to wait until I get the other banjo bolt screen off on the driver’s side to confirm it is compressed but I think that is exactly what I’ll find and is exactly what has been reported to SOA by many owners.
Dead, I agree with SMB. I would make an appt. with the factory district rep. and put on your best behavior with your service receipts from the dealership.You had a pre-paid plan.
Your dealership should have been looking out for you.Go to the dealer and ask the owner to help you out or maybe…you might not buy another vehicle from that dealership.Tell him/her you will be more than happy to take him/her and factory rep. out to a liquid lunch and discuss this little issue.
There is also a severe service maintenance interval and about 99% of the cars on the road fit this category.
In the case of a turbocharged car that sees short hop driving, etc. the oil should be changed about every 3000-3500 miles or 3/4 month intervals. Not doing this is probably going to lead to sludging or oil coking problems.
After 5 years I think you’re going to have a tough row to hoe by expecting Subaru to cover either a turbo or engine problem; and many times both are connected.
They may possibly step in and perform a Good Will warranty. They also may agree to meet you halfway but that often means that with the smoke and mirrors removed from the transaction the owner is footing all or most of the bill.
I’ve worked for Subaru dealers as a tech and also done counter work along with warranty claims. If you approached me with this scenario I would say tough luck after 5 years as far as the dealer level is concerned.
However, I would volunteer to contact SOA on your behalf to see if they would step in on this as a PR gesture. The most they can do is say no and to be brutally honest, I don’t trust SOA any further than I can throw the entire corporate office building.
Two comments: First, for the hater who compared Subis with Yugos, I drive my '05 XT hard, closing in on 100K miles, and no repair issues other than replacing a fog-light switch that fried and plastic cowl that came loose on my drivers seat (both around 70K). Total non-scheduled maintenance cost: $120.00. Change the oil at 5K, but after looking at this and a couple of other threads, I am seriously considering dropping back to 3-4K.
Second, (while I like the show and have listened to it for years), for those of you who worship at the shrine, I had the honor of having my XT’s 60K service done at a small shop in Cambridgeport (aka “our fair city”) that takes only cash.
At the next oil change, the dealer said that the filter had been improperly torqued-on without a gasket, and they had a very tough time getting it off, which was hardly “Good News.” Oh, and the replacement rear windshield wiper wasn’t attached properly, and fell off before I got home. Hope the things that couldn’t be seen were done with more care!
Found this interesting, don’t know if it applies to you but was a TSB.
How can an engine that is running fine and has perfect oil pressure destroy a turbocharger due to oil starvation or lack of sufficient oil supply? Well, Subaru has figured it out, and has issued a series of Service Bulletins that explains how it happens and what to do about it.
Turns out that there is an oil filter screen built into the factory oil feed banjo bolt at the cylinder head, and Subaru wants it either serviced regularly or removed completely in order to avoid turbocharger oil starvation and failure. The Subaru Service Technicians (from dealerships) we interviewed on this subject reported recurring turbocharger failures even on completely stock 2.5 WRX, STi, Forrester and Baja vehicles due to this problem, prompting an Official Subaru Service Bulletin in October 2007.
It’s possible because the oil pressure is taken at the pump. It’s quite possible to have a sludged or coked over oil passage somewhere and still have good oil pressure.
A Subaru of America employee absolutely trashed a turbo on a brand new car in less than 500 miles so anything is possible.
As to the poster who mentioned the lack of a drain plug gasket you would not believe how common that is. The gasket should be replaced every single time the drain plug is removed.
Failure to do so can lead to some major wrestling matches while attempting to remove a drain plug later. I’ve had a number of them that involved spending anywhere from half a hour to 3 or more hours to remove. In one very severe case it never did come out; even after using an air chisel, removal of the pan, torch, etc.
My turbo destroyed itself also, last month. Replaced it myself at a cost of ?500. Subaru won’t admit there is a problem with oil supply on their turbo engines, (no matter what model they be fitted to) but they know they have one. There is a very fine filter in the oil supply line to the turbo, this filter is suseptible to clogging, thus starving the turbo of oil. Go to the web address detailed below to get the full story before you replace your turbo and blow it up again…http://www.boostplanet.com/subaruoilstarvation.htm