# 2003 Saturn Vue V6 (cylinder 4 damage) and Bosch spark plugs **URL:** \ **Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\ **Tags:** vue, saturn\ **Created:** [November 13, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516 "2010-11-13T15:14:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jimgray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e99b99/32.png) [@jimgray](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jimgray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/21 "2010-11-13T20:28:46Z")
every time you went to the Saturn dealer they gave you a receipt or an invoice for all work done. look at your receipts. i know you did not keep them. right? anyway, somewhere the copies are available. when the Saturn dealer closed those records were transfered somewhere for warranty purposes. If the spark plug failed as you say then there may be some recourse with Bosch. contact a Bosch distributor for info or do a google search. ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/22 "2010-11-13T21:03:18Z")
I have most of my receipts but I hope that all of them were stored somewhere in Saturn Land. I was actually confused about something with the Spark plug replacement. I thought it was every 30k but I looked in the owners manual and it does not mention that I have to replace spark plugs till 100k. The every 30k was something to do with the transmission unit. I guess I have a ground to do something now. ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/23 "2010-11-13T21:05:11Z")
I think they just felt sorry for me since the Engine is in bad shape. Also, I guess it helps that my brother is a repeat customer at the Pep boys. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/24 "2010-11-13T22:07:56Z")
I think “donuts” are in order here (or whatever is considered “good form” from where you come from).All kidding aside, drop by and leave something for the guys to munch on, always good to have a shop like this in your list. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/25 "2010-11-13T23:05:31Z")
Are you thinking that since sparkplug replacement interval is 100K that someone is going to compensate you for failure of the plugs before 100k? Perhaps somewher in your post you mention who put in the Bosch plugs, but I ask do you know? ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/26 "2010-11-14T00:14:32Z")
Obviously those plugs must of been in the vehicle when I purchased it because I know I didn’t put them in. If service schedule is in print someone must of known how long they suppose to last. Otherwise whats the point of a service schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/27 "2010-11-14T01:02:41Z")
Bosch platinum plugs have been around many years and my first experience with them was also a broken center electrode damaging the piston. Since then I have seen the same problem on 4 engines including a small block chevrolet that damage one cylinder, tossed the broken electrode through the intake manifold and into an adjacent cylinder damaging that piston and cylinder wall. The engine was a newly installed crate engine and lawyers became involved with the conflict. The plugs appear to be very fragile but adequate warnings regarding gapping is not given and gapping them in the same manner as standard plugs is likely to damage the center porcelin. On this website many years ago I stated my opinion on the first problem and was lambasted with attacks from someone at Bosch. Maybe they will reply to me now. But facts are facts. The plugs are much more fragile than standard plugs. ---
**Author:** ![oldtimer-11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e79b87/32.png) [@oldtimer-11](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldtimer-11)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/28 "2010-11-14T01:32:16Z")
Sorry about the troubles- good luck at the Chevy dealer. This is the same V-6 as the Saturn LW2 and an Opel design.Most of the LW2 was mechanically identical to the Opel Wagon. Since Opel was German GM it probably came with Bosch plugs. I wasn’t aware that they used this engine in Saabs but since GM owned them it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/29 "2010-11-14T01:51:12Z")
I wasn’t contesting the idea that the plugs are original what I want to gently point out to you is that neither the Dealer (or Bosch) will accept the logic that since the service interval is 100k and the plug failed before 100k that the damage is on the manufacture of the car or the manufacture of the plug, that is not going to work. We recently (within the last 6 months) has a post from a person who had a spark plug sieze in the cylinder head. This person wrote to us asking how she (OP was a she) could get first the Dealer, then the cars manufacture to accept responsibility. Most were sympatthatic to her plight but there was no way. I will not get into (at least very much) the line of thought here that even if the car has a service interval for its sparkplugs of 100K the owner should not leave them in that long. ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/30 "2010-11-14T07:29:37Z")
It’s also possible that an air leak in that particular cylinder could have caused a lean condition, overheating of the plug, and the subsequent disentegration of that plug. (Intake gasket, injector O-ring, etc. could the be the cause of an air leak) My opinion is that when an engine performance problem exists a compression test should always be performed. The spark plugs are out anyway so weed any possible mechanical faults out right from the get-go. Even a comparatively low miles engine is no guarantee that a mechanical fault does not exist so check them all. At least connect a vacuum gauge (which takes seconds) and if a mechanical fault exists it will show up instantly on the vacuum gauge. This could be followed up with a compression test. My feeling is that you should not drive this vehicle with it running poorly. This can only make a bad situation worse and I do not consider Bosch plugs to be defective. I use many of them on my own vehicles (put a set in my daughter’s Mustang several nights ago) and have installed more of them in the shop than I could even start to remember; with never a comeback on any of them. ---
**Author:** ![oldwrench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@oldwrench](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldwrench)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/31 "2010-11-17T03:30:38Z")
something besides your brother’s repeated business must have made an impression on “the boys” The motor is kaput. If you love the car, put in a new motor, with warranty.Otherwise, cut your loses and get another vehicle.Sure, you can have the head removed, valve job done etc… You will be more than halfway towards the purchase of another motor. If you have to replace a piston, then game over. ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/32 "2010-11-17T21:42:17Z")
From the “authorized Saturn service center” I was told that the cylinder 4 head has damage as does the valve. They looked at it via bore scope. They could not find the electrode piece. Total cost of repair we talking 3.6k. Here is the part list but I don?t know if this all inclusive. Cylinder Head Timing belt Head set Misc items Oh yea the and the cylinder 4 compression was 100psi or that is what was written up. Interesting on the ride back from the shop I was getting a slight rough idle when standing still at traffic light but the acceleration is almost normal. My question is when the tech took everything apart and put it back together could something have made the engine run a little better? Or is this just a temporary thing? What harm could I cause the engine if the cylinder head and valve are damaged? Would the Catalytic converter be overworked? I guess Catalytic converter would be overworked before when there was no spark plug working in cylinder 4 from the excess fuel but now with a full set of plugs. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/33 "2010-11-17T22:49:25Z")
I was certainly expecting the report on cylinder # 4 to be zero not 100psi. A reading of “zero” would be inline with a damaged seat or a not fully closing valve (held open by some object). I am not at all suprised that acceleration feels near normal if your lowest cylinder is 100pis. Take a ride in a 4 cyl car that has a totaly dead cylinder, not very many people will fail to detect something is wrong. OK, so you have a slightly rough idle (which I do not think is related too the 100psi figure in #4) and near normal acceleration. I would simply drive on. ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/34 "2010-11-18T15:13:25Z")
Well I took it out for a ride to do an errand and it’s back to it’s rough idle and mediocre acceleration. I requested the option to have a rebuilt engine and pricing/warranty info since the repair would only be 12months for the work performed not the whole engine. I decided to call the engine shop in Upper Darby and I was told they don’t work on those vehicles at all. The tech there said those engines have timing belt issues and if you have to reset it there no markings for putting a new belt in and parts are difficult to get he says. I just going by what he said over the phone. I guess he really didn’t want to work on it that all. If I was not out of a full time job I would not be here asking these questions on what I should do. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/35 "2010-11-18T19:05:43Z")
You are now describing a “drivability” issue that comes and goes. You may not see it so but it is better, and there is more of a chance to fix an issue that comes and goes without a “new engine” than if the issue was always present. What needs to happen is an absolute 100% conclusion if this engine has internal damage or not. If it is concluded that the engine does not have internal damage ( I know some would say a cylinder at 100 psi is damaged but the car can still perform quite well with a cylinder at 100 psi) then we need to find out what is causing this intermittent “poor running” condition. ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/36 "2010-11-18T19:29:27Z")
Well on the tech’s notes that I have it does say that Valve damage is seen using the bore scope. I don’t know anyone else that has a bore scope and I already paid once to get this information. I don’t know how else to get a 100% conclusion if I don’t have that now. Their are no other sensor issues involved that I know about. At pep boys, my friend mechanic, and at the service center. I had access to a little portable device to show the codes too and all confirmed the P0304 code related to Cylinder 4 misfire. The engine was fine before in good condition before the spark plug blowup. I always kept up with service by the book. My question is, is it worth it to just get repair and only have 12 month warranty on parts and labor or get rebuilt engine put in. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/37 "2010-11-18T21:57:09Z")
A borescope is not capable of showing if a good (or a poor) sealing situation exits between the valve face and the valve seat. What a borescope can show is the condition of the cylinder walls (this is why it is called a "borescope). I say that “NO”, it is not a good idea to solve a issue not related to an internal engine defect by replacing the engine. After you put the new engine in you would most likely still have a cylinder #4 misfire. Again, get confirmation (from a professional) as to the state of health of your engine internaly, if this apprasial is that the engine is OK seek a professional to find and fix the issues that is causing the misfire. ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/38 "2010-11-18T22:28:50Z")
The dealer who is an authorized saturn service center says it needs cylinder head,timing belt and headset and misc things. I guess the only other “professional” would be another authorized saturn service center in the area and another $95 too. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/39 "2010-11-18T22:34:31Z")
What leads the Dealer to say you need this work? I realize you may not know why the Dealer is saying you need this much work but you need to find out. What exactly does the Dealer suspect is so wrong with the cylinder head that it needs to be replaced? perhaps you do not know, this would not be uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![neftv1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@neftv1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/neftv1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516/40 "2010-11-18T22:47:25Z")
He said he saw damage. on the sheet I have it says "R & R upper intake check compression in #4 only loops inspect with bore scope valve damage seen needs new cylinder head" those are excepted from the sheet they gave me. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/2003-saturn-vue-v6-cylinder-4-damage-and-bosch-spark-plugs/57516.md?page=3)