# 1972 Honda n600 bad timing? White smoke? **URL:** \ **Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\ **Tags:** timing-belts, honda\ **Created:** [May 16, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309 "2016-05-16T05:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/21 "2016-05-17T20:58:12Z")
Don’t feel too bad about the difference in smoke color. Sometimes it can be a gray area so to speak. About a month ago I stopped at an O’Reillys auto parts store and there was one of those old huge land yacht Lincolns sitting there in the employee parking lot. Suicide doors and all. The car was pretty clean with hardly any rust and a look at the inside showed a very clean interior. I talked to the guy who owned it for a few minutes and moved on with life. A few weeks later while coming into town on the 4 lane I see a massive smoke cloud that was white and so dense it was difficult to see through it. Some people were even turning on their headlights. Yep, it was that Lincoln and as it passed by going the other way I noted the smoke now appeared to be blue when it was closer. It kind of reminded me of one of those old DDT mosquito spayers they used in the Deep South many decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/22 "2016-05-17T22:06:14Z")
Look at page 4-27 in this link. [http://honda600coupe.com/Honda\_600\_Sedan\_Shop\_Manual\_chap\_04.pdf](http://honda600coupe.com/Honda_600_Sedan_Shop_Manual_chap_04.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![MrVince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MrVince](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MrVince)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/23 "2016-05-19T18:02:38Z")
Just talked to my boss and he said I can take it in Monday and we can check it out if we have free time. He thinks we just have to take the valve covers off and that I jumped it wrong, who knows. He says my timing is just off probably. He’s been working with cars for a really long time so hopefully he comes up with something. @keith I’ll inspect the camshaft and measure it if I have to take it off, I don’t really want to touch it anymore then I have. That’s one of the problems we have at work, customers working on it before we do and causing more damage… ---
**Author:** ![wentwest](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/wentwest/32/6073_2.png) [@wentwest](https://community.cartalk.com/u/wentwest)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/24 "2016-05-19T19:37:45Z")
Good plan. Just don’t start it until you check things out. ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 6:35am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/25 "2016-05-20T06:35:31Z")
Not sure if this applies to your 1972, but on my 70’s VW Rabbit and my 90’s Corolla I first set the valve timing by aligning the marks on the camshaft sprocket and crankshaft sprocket. Then I hand turn the engine a few times and verify they are still lining up. If so I start the engine and use a timing light to first make sure the ignition timing is correct, then make sure the valve alignment remains ok with the engine running at idle. I paint some “white-out” on the valve timing marks so they are easier to see with the timing light. ---
**Author:** ![Honda-Blackbird](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/honda-blackbird/32/3159_2.png) [@Honda-Blackbird](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Honda-Blackbird)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/26 "2016-05-20T16:01:37Z")
Be wary of several things…messing up the valve timing is NOT a minor issue… the resultant damage repairs possible or probable will quickly teach you this. Also…lets say you got the timing chain on correctly… Why did it jump? There can be several not so obvious things that make this occur. The t chain tensioner…is one for sure. However the not so obvious is when the cam eats into the head journals…then the cam is not perfectly level or alligned…and no amount of redoing the chain will save you in this instance… Lets hope you were one tooth off from the start…did no valve damage…and you can just line her up properly and motor on…this is the scenario you are hoping for. If you find that upon reassembly of a perfectly alligned t chain that it skips jumps or hops…you must then look for the cause…and they arent all that obvious and do not reassemble/start engine till you find out why. Good luck…keep us posted ---
**Author:** ![MrVince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MrVince](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MrVince)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/27 "2016-05-20T18:42:59Z")
@“Honda Blackbird” I’ll keep you posted with what happens on Monday, I don’t want to touch it without a mechanic by my side from now. ---
**Author:** ![MrVince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MrVince](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MrVince)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/28 "2016-05-24T09:12:08Z")
So, my boss looked at my car and we found out that the car has a bent intake valve on cylinder 1. So I’m going to park the car and get a whole head and just replace it. Our service writer called a machine shop and said maybe they can find one if I take it off so I may do that if it’s cheaper. An expensive mistake, my boss said when I do it to have him over on a weekend. An expensive mistake but I learned my lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:32am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/29 "2016-05-24T09:32:42Z")
If you send your cylinder head to the machine shop perhaps they can service the head and replace the valves. More important, the cam timing should not jump back and forth as you implied. Is the timing chain loose? ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:41am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/30 "2016-05-24T09:41:01Z")
I kind of figured this was a valve/piston contact issue from the get-go. The head should actually be an easy fix and not too expensive although your area may be different than mine. Around here the auto machine shop charges 5 dollars a hole on a valve job plus the cost of any valves that may be needed. I would suggest that if there are any nicks in the piston tops that have sharp edges those edges should be filed off. Sharp edges can glow red hot on a running engine and cause severe detonation which can also ruin an engine. I’ve heard a few engines in which this was neglected and the engine knock could be heard half a block away; all because of some tiny knife edges. The entire cam chain set should also be replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 10:26am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/31 "2016-05-24T10:26:26Z")
5 dollars a hole? $40 to recondition heads for an old V-8? That would be before I was born, I never payed less than $100 for a valve job on two heads and that was 30 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![MrVince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MrVince](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MrVince)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/32 "2016-05-24T18:11:47Z")
@ok4450 I asked my boss if there might be damage to the piston and he said not because I did it when I hand cranked the engine and never ran it that way. I’ll see it when I pull it off though. ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 10:52pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/33 "2016-05-24T22:52:59Z")
I just had a pair of heads (small block Ford 5.0) done last fall at the machine shop here and 80 bucks for a valve job. There was a small additional charge for a set of valve seals and a shim on one valve spring. I also paid a little extra for vatting the heads out but the holes themselves were 80 bucks total. Not shabby at all, huh? These guys are by no means hacks. They’re total pros doing the 3-angle valve job along with hand lapping the valve to the seat, checking valve spring height, and so on. They’re also a performance engine shop with a dyno and pretty much the go-to place for race car guys and anything related to engine work. The early 2000s Corvette they have pushing about 1500 horsepower is pretty cool also… 🙂 I used to have my own valve equipment and did my own cylinder head valve work. However, it’s time consuming and for 5 bucks a hole it’s much easier to farm it out so I put my gear up for sale on eBay and some guy jumped on it the first day. He called me in the evening and asked about dropping by my house to pick it up with cash. Sure. Come to find out he’s a long haul trucker going from Canada to Mexico regularly so I helped him load it all on the tail end of the trailer and it all has a new home in Alberta now. It’s been a couple of years since I had it done but the last engine block I had bored there was 12 bucks a hole. I vaguely remember the total tab for a bored, vatted V-8 block with my custom pistons fitted and all new cam bushings, galley plugs, and block plugs was about 305 bucks; tax and all. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/34 "2016-05-24T22:55:41Z")
Where can you find a replacement head for this thing? They were rare when new, much rarer now! ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/35 "2016-05-24T23:34:41Z")
@ok4450 I misunderstood, thought “5 bucks a hole” was slang for per cylinder not per valve. ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/36 "2016-05-25T03:11:19Z")
That could be easily misinterpreted so 5 bucks a hole should probably be referred to as per valve instead. I use to refer to this as per valve many years ago but somewhere along the line picked up the per hole lingo and it stuck with me. Note to self; use the per valve designation from now on. Much like carburetor solvent. Many mechanics in this neck of the woods refer to it in slang as carburetor acid. ---
**Author:** ![George\_San\_Jose1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e5b9ba/32.png) [@George\_San\_Jose1](https://community.cartalk.com/u/George_San_Jose1)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 7:31am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/37 "2016-05-25T07:31:25Z")
A older V8 head ( 2 heads total likely) , that would have 16 holes, right? So $80. ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/38 "2016-05-25T08:03:31Z")
Yep, and around here it’s just been the last couple of years that they raised the price to 5 bucks a hole. It was 4. ---
**Author:** ![Nevada\_545](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/nevada_545/32/41232_2.png) [@Nevada\_545](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Nevada_545)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 8:48am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/39 "2016-05-25T08:48:06Z")
Each valve has two holes. On old cast iron V-8 cylinder heads I usually have new valve guides installed. ---
**Author:** ![MrVince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MrVince](https://community.cartalk.com/u/MrVince)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309/40 "2016-05-25T18:53:42Z")
@texases The only place I can find parts for this car is eBay or other small websites some are even abandoned. My dad said he’ll buy the head since he bent it but I can’t find any intake valves that are new so just thinking of when I fix it to buy the whole head with them used. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1972-honda-n600-bad-timing-white-smoke/93309.md?page=3)