# 1954 jeep wlleys **URL:** \ **Category:** Maintenance/Repairs\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716 "2014-06-30T10:18:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mom\_oh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mom_oh/32/2699_2.png) [@Mom\_oh](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mom_oh)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:18am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/1 "2014-06-30T10:18:52Z")
This jeep has a 230 tornado motor, and it keeps burn out starters. The fly wheel looks good. Does anyone know what the cause could be? ---
**Author:** ![oldtimer-11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e79b87/32.png) [@oldtimer-11](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldtimer-11)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/2 "2014-06-30T10:35:44Z")
Pep Boys starters? I had a friend that went through seven lifetime Pep Boys starters in just over two years. Mercifully the transmission died and sent it to the junkyard. ---
**Author:** ![Mom\_oh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mom_oh/32/2699_2.png) [@Mom\_oh](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mom_oh)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 11:39am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/3 "2014-06-30T11:39:13Z")
No. Pep boys doesn’t carry that year. We took it to Arts electric a local shop with a good reputation. They have rebuilt it twice. ---
**Author:** ![missileman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/missileman/32/1366_2.png) [@missileman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/missileman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/4 "2014-06-30T16:43:39Z")
From personal experience…you can only rebuild a starter a limited number of times. When it’s worn out…it’s worn out. I think it’s time you bought another starter. ---
**Author:** ![Mom\_oh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mom_oh/32/2699_2.png) [@Mom\_oh](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mom_oh)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/5 "2014-06-30T17:26:45Z")
From what I was told and the price they charged, I thought it was good to go. Thank you for the advise ---
**Author:** ![Mom\_oh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mom_oh/32/2699_2.png) [@Mom\_oh](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mom_oh)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 10:11am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/6 "2014-07-01T10:11:13Z")
Any other ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Rod-Knox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Rod-Knox](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Rod-Knox)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/7 "2014-07-01T17:26:18Z")
Starters fail in many ways. What exactly has “burned out” so far? If the armature commutator is badly worn newly installed brushes won’t last long and most shops are unable to rebuild the commutator. It is unlikely that a new armature is available at a reasonable price. I am guessing that is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/8 "2014-07-01T17:27:49Z")
When you say ‘burned out’, what parts have failed on the starter? Fun fact: I just learned that “Willys” was originally pronounced “Williss”, not like “Willy’s”. The company’s been gone so long, who knew? ---
**Author:** ![pleasedodgevan2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@pleasedodgevan2](https://community.cartalk.com/u/pleasedodgevan2)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/9 "2014-07-01T20:47:32Z")
Probably there isn’t a good ground wire between engine and body. You may benefit by installing one. Nothing burns out motors like a bad ground. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/10 "2014-07-01T21:09:47Z")
Good idea about the ground, and an easy fix. ---
**Author:** ![ok4450](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ok4450](https://community.cartalk.com/u/ok4450)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/11 "2014-07-01T21:30:30Z")
Known to be burned up or assumed to be burned up? This Willys has not been converted to a 12 volt battery system has it? ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/12 "2014-07-01T21:33:59Z")
Look the starter body and end caps over for some identifier of the manufacturer. Willy’s used parts from other manufacturers like GM and Ford for a lot of their external parts. You may find that the starter will cross to a much more commonly available starter. Packard Electric made a lot of electrical parts for all the manufacturers back then, except for GM which used Delco. Ask the rebuilders if they put the armature on a lathe and turned the commutator. If they didn’t, that will accelerate the wear of the brushes. ---
**Author:** ![Mom\_oh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mom_oh/32/2699_2.png) [@Mom\_oh](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mom_oh)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/13 "2014-07-02T00:26:24Z")
230 tornato is a 12 volt engine. The drive head is being sheared or shattered off. ---
**Author:** ![keith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/keith/32/5518_2.png) [@keith](https://community.cartalk.com/u/keith)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/14 "2014-07-02T00:47:03Z")
That sounds like the Bendix spring is broken or very weak. This pulls the drive gear back when the engine starts. ---
**Author:** ![Mom\_oh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mom_oh/32/2699_2.png) [@Mom\_oh](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mom_oh)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/15 "2014-07-02T01:08:27Z")
The man that rebuilt it twice, told us this stater doesn’t disengage until the motor reaches a certain rpm. I’m not sure I believe him though ---
**Author:** ![PvtPublic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/pvtpublic/32/13089_2.png) [@PvtPublic](https://community.cartalk.com/u/PvtPublic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/16 "2014-07-02T01:22:36Z")
It should disengage as soon as the flywheel starts moving faster that the starter can drive it. Which generally is about the same time the engine starts and you release the key from the start position or release the starter button. ---
**Author:** ![insightful](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/insightful/32/2732_2.png) [@insightful](https://community.cartalk.com/u/insightful)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/17 "2014-07-02T02:30:57Z")
Per Wikipedia: “The 6-230 Tornado OHC engine was introduced in midyear 1962, replacing the flathead.” Is this correct? You have a 1962 motor? How hard is the starter to remove? You might try removing and lubricating it at a frequency greater than the failure frequency, at least long enough to find out if it’s a lubrication-related failure. ---
**Author:** ![researcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/edb3f5/32.png) [@researcher](https://community.cartalk.com/u/researcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/18 "2014-07-02T02:49:44Z")
You might check with your rebuilder to make sure the starter is a true 12 volt starter. If it is the OEM starter for that year of Willys, it would be a 6 volt starter. A 6 volt starter can be used on a 12 volt system but it will crank at a very high speed; produce a lot more torque; and draw a lot of current. It will survive if you do not prolong the cranking i.e. overheat it. Also discuss with your rebuilder if the electric motor can be rewound, (armature and fields) for 12 volt operation. Your rebuilder is right. The 50’s starter bendix had an inertial engagement. Lock pins would keep it engaged with the flywheel teeth until the engine overspins the armature releasing the pins by centrifugal force and spinning the pinion back into the rest position. If the engine failed to start the bendix would stay locked in until such time that the engine did subsequently start. You can verify that the pinion is still engaged by manually turning the crankshaft and listening for the starter turning along. There is a drive pin for the bendix worm shaft. I suspect that the starter being a 6 volt driven at 12 volt, the bendix spring between the worm shaft and pinion probably cannot absorb enough of the engagement shock to spare the pin. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/19 "2014-07-02T03:48:33Z")
This is really odd - you’re sure it’s the Tornado engine? Here’s more info: > **[Jeep Tornado engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Tornado_engine)** > > The Jeep Tornado engine was the first post-World War II U.S.-designed mass-produced overhead cam (OHC) automobile engine. The 230.5 cu in (3.78 L) straight-six was introduced in mid-year 1962, and replaced the flathead 6-226 Willys Super Hurricane that was in use since 1954. The Tornado engine was also manufactured in Argentina by Industrias Kaiser Argentina (IKA) from 1965 to 1973. It’s a much later engine, not something I’d expect in an old Willys. ---
**Author:** ![oldtimer-11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e79b87/32.png) [@oldtimer-11](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldtimer-11)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716/20 "2014-07-02T07:35:56Z")
The 1962-65 Tornado engine is also credited by wikipedia as the first postwar US made overhead cam engine,it was not, the 1949 Crosley was. What year is your engine? Has your Jeep been completely converted to 12 volt? [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/1954-jeep-wlleys/85716.md?page=2)