OK, lets get serious here…I’m a retired ASE certified mechanic which included the “Brake” endorsement…
Remove all the drums. Have a second party SLOWLY depress the brake pedal while YOU observe the movement at the wheel cylinders…As soon as you see movement, yell stop or you risk blowing out a cup…If you have movement, GOOD! Put the drums back on and ADJUST the brakes with a brake spoon or large screwdriver until each brake LOCKS. Then back off the adjuster until the drum can JUST be turned by hand. Do this to ALL four wheels. NOW do you have a brake pedal???
I will try first thing in the morning. Adjustments on these brakes are with the cams on the backing plate and the nuts on the bottom (heel)of the shoes. I was just in the garage and pulled one drum and was going to try what you suggested but decided too step back and regroup before I get too agravated. Thanks for advice and also for hanging in there with me.
Okay! Look at how they work to get the right direction to turn the adjuster. This may be opposite side to side. Slowly rotate the adjuster while you move the drum back and forth to center the shoes in the drum and then lock the brake. Back off just a little. That should do it. On these old cars, the brakes had to be adjusted every other oil change as the brake pedal slowly went down…
OK. I took off the rear drums and stepped on the peddle and had no movement at all on the wheel cylinders. the car sat over night and I checked everything again for leaks and nothing. Almost at the end of my rope.
At this point I would be suspicious of the master cylinder even though it was rebuilt.
I also want to add that it’s my view that even if you could in this case, don’t do gravity bleeding of brakes. The gravity method may very well get the air out of your lines to result in a hard pedal but… With two people, one pushing on the brake pedal and one operating the bleed valve, there will then be turbulence in the wheel cylinder to stir up debris that is at the bottom of the wheel cylinder that will more likely be swept up to the bleed valve at the top of the cylinder and out of the system.
Did you adjust the brakes? Until you adjust them, one of the other wheels’ cylinders may be expanding. You need to adjust all 4 brakes, check that they’re bled, then take one drum off and see if the wheel cylinder works.
For now I am going to do the brake adjustments as suggested above. If that doesn’t work I am going to try replacing the return springs to ones with less tension.
I’m not sure I follow your reasoning regarding the return springs. Your brake’s hydraulic system should be able to easily overpower any reasonable return springs.
Disconnect the brake line from the Master. Put your finger over the fitting on the master and depress the brake pedal. Fluid should spray out past your finger…Be careful here, if you hold it too tight, you can inject fluid into your finger…If the Master pumps fluid, you can assume it’s OK for now. Hold your on the fitting as you release the pedal so no air is drawn in…
I agree, with no adjustment of the brakes, ALL THE MOVEMENT can be in ONE wheel cylinder you are not looking at…The one with the weakest return springs. Do NOT use weaker springs! Adjust the brakes!
AS the kids say - OMG! I finally got it! It was the adjustments on the shoes. Each wheel had about a 1/4 " play. Once I adjusted to where the wheel locked and then backed off a hair, I re-bled the system and I got the hard peddle. I only spent about 48 hours and $40 in brake fluid. If I remember correctly I loosened the adjustments back when I was just trying to get the drums on to get the wheels on to roll it around. I had no idea they were so far out of adjustment, I guess the drums going on so easy should have told me something. Well, live and learn. I really want to thank everyone who helped, I mean really, you guys are GREAT for taking the time.
Well the car is running and the brakes work (although there is still alot to finish)as soon as the snow is gone I plan on trying to take it for a little road test drive. I am sure you will be hearing from me again.
One more thing, does anyone have any suggestions on where I should post if I need you guys again. Car talk really doesn’t have a catagory for the vintage guys.
THANKS AGAIN. Pete
Hey, glad we could help! Before you button the brakes up, check everything carefully, wheel by wheel… There are no back-up systems with these old brakes, so mistakes can be costly. I had a rule in my shop that after a brake job, a second mechanic looked it over before the drums went back on. That saved a LOT of grief, we had few come-backs…
You can always find help here so don’t hesitate to come back…
One more thing to do: After the brake job is completed and the brakes are working, park your car in a safe spot such as your driveway and push on the brake pedal with all your strength to attempt to burst the system at a weak place such as a rusted line, flex hose or whatever.
This unusual application might happen in a panic stop so you might as well learn in your driveway if the system will burst.
Unbelievable Caddy. I never ever would have thought to ask this question. I thought it was just common knowledge that you have to adjust the shoes. Kind of like asking if the shoes themselves were installed. Glad it worked out.